Football 18/19

[WS_Jack_III]

I also understand why some of you don't think Ashley is "that bad" but you only have to look at where the club were in the 10 seasons before he was owner and the 10 since he took over. Yes, we had a few blips but most of the time we were pretty much what Spurs are now (not quite european comp wise though).

He ruined a main stay club of the premier league and he did it through his own ignorance and arrogance.

He's an absolute stain on the history of the club.

 

Edit: I'm immediately retracting that spurs comment, they've been way more consistent in their last 10 seasons. We still had some solid seasons though in the time I listed.

Edited May 27, 2019 by WS_Jack_III

[mjsell]

27 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Interesting I heard a few weeks ago that last season 20+ players managed to get premiership moves after being relegated. I can't see many this year, probably a few Fulham players, but would anyone take a player from Cardiff or Huddersfield?

Yeah definitely way less than normal, reason being that Cardiff and Huddersfield were still championship level sides just trying to survive.  Off the top of my head players that I think could get a move (maybe not back to the prem in some cases, but at least out of the championship) 

Sessegnon, Babel, Schurrle, Mitrovic, Camarasa.

With the likes of Etheridge, Mooy, Pritchard, Arter, Chambers, Seri, Mawson maybe getting lucky with a club taking them on the cheap. 

 

[CRW5252]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

It's just a little perspective, I think a lot of people are very much in the premiership bubble and don't know the true meaning of a bad owner.  There are clubs going bankrupt, clubs who have had grounds and training grounds taken off them.

I think if you did a poll Nationwide of footballs worst owners someone like Ashley could easily come top, he wouldn't come close to making my shortlist.

I do understand the need for perspective in some cases but I don't think what DareToDibble said was in any way unreasonable. If he said something like "Ashley has got to be the worst owner out there" or to similar effect I think your comment would make more sense.

There isn't really a 'true meaning' of a bad owner, it is subjective. Of course there's worse owners out there but that doesn't take away from the fact Ashley is awful. The reason there is much more publicity around the Newcastle situation is because Newcastle are a much bigger club than the teams you are referring to. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with that.

[CRW5252]

29 minutes ago, mjsell said:

Yeah definitely way less than normal, reason being that Cardiff and Huddersfield were still championship level sides just trying to survive.  Off the top of my head players that I think could get a move (maybe not back to the prem in some cases, but at least out of the championship) 

Sessegnon, Babel, Schurrle, Mitrovic, Camarasa.

With the likes of Etheridge, Mooy, Pritchard, Arter, Chambers, Seri, Mawson maybe getting lucky with a club taking them on the cheap. 

 

I'd be very surprised if Mooy, Chambers (whose only on loan anyway) and Seri aren't playing in the prem next year (or a top league in europe). Seri in particular is a real talent, despite him struggling this season  

[pink_triangle]

7 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

I do understand the need for perspective in some cases but I don't think what DareToDibble said was in any way unreasonable. If he said something like "Ashley has got to be the worst owner out there" or to similar effect I think your comment would make more sense.

There isn't really a 'true meaning' of a bad owner, it is subjective. Of course there's worse owners out there but that doesn't take away from the fact Ashley is awful. The reason there is much more publicity around the Newcastle situation is because Newcastle are a much bigger club than the teams you are referring to. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with that.

Everybody has a right to an opinion on what a bad owner is. I hear Man Utd and Arsenal also moan about owners. I'm just giving my perspective which is shaped from years following lower league football, which I think is very different to if I had supported a premiers team.

Wrexhams owner bought the club purely for the ground and tried to kick them out to make money on the property. Unfortunately this is not an isolation circumstance. You only have to look at our neighbours Chester and they probably had worse who has ruined multiple clubs. In  owners top Trump's you give me Mike Ashley, I raise you with this gentleman!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Vaughan_Sr.

[thetime]

Be interesting if the Newcastle fans on here will be as critical on city, especially if the perspective new owners pump a lot of money in like his cousin. 

 

[CRW5252]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Everybody has a right to an opinion on what a bad owner is. I hear Man Utd and Arsenal also moan about owners. I'm just giving my perspective which is shaped from years following lower league football, which I think is very different to if I had supported a premiers team.

Yes, no doubt it would be. I still follow lower league football as well, the team most local to the area I grew up are Maidenhead. Used to have a season ticket back in the day. 

 

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Wrexhams owner bought the club purely for the ground and tried to kick them out to make money on the property. Unfortunately this is not an isolation circumstance. You only have to look at our neighbours Chester and they probably had worse who has ruined multiple clubs. In  owners top Trump's you give me Mike Ashley, I raise you with this gentleman!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Vaughan_Sr.

Those owners are no doubt bad but the issues are very different to the issues Newcastle faced and they impacted much less people. 

Big clubs are easier to run as cash cows for the owners than smaller clubs are. That's exactly what Ashley has done. He's exploited the loyalty of the fan base. 

I get a feeling from you that you believe the big clubs have it all great and shouldn't complain, I really disagree with this. 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, CRW5252 said:

. 

I get a feeling from you that you believe the big clubs have it all great and shouldn't complain, I really disagree with this. 

I believe that there are shit parts about being a football fan which include anything from players being crap, clueless managers to bad owners.  If I was to ranks those shit things I think fans who have lost their grounds and in some cases lost their team completely have had it the toughest. 

As I have said if I followed a Man Utd or Liverpool like most of the people I grew up with I would have a very different perspective on football and think someone like Ashley was as bad as it gets.  

[WS_Jack_III]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

Be interesting if the Newcastle fans on here will be as critical on city, especially if the perspective new owners pump a lot of money in like his cousin. 

 

Have Newcastle fans on here been critical on Man City? As far as I'm aware it's pretty much the only way to win anything in the game.

[CRW5252]

8 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I believe that there are shit parts about being a football fan which include anything from players being crap, clueless managers to bad owners.  If I was to ranks those shit things I think fans who have lost their grounds and in some cases lost their team completely have had it the toughest. 

It doesn't get any worse than losing your team completely, no doubt about that. Despite this, that doesn't take away from the fact that Ashley has been awful. Nothing DareToDibble said was unreasonable so I don't see why he needed any 'perspective'. 

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

As I have said if I followed a Man Utd or Liverpool like most of the people I grew up with I would have a very different perspective on football and think someone like Ashley was as bad as it gets.  

As an Arsenal fan, there is a 5-6 year waiting list for season tickets and if I do manage to get one they are around £1500 a year. Then when I'm in the stadium the atmosphere is crap most the time anyway! 

The issues with being a fan of a big club is very different to being a fan of a smaller club. It's definitely not as simple as the fans of the big clubs have it all good and the fans of the smaller clubs have it bad. 

Just to clarify, I don't think Ashley is "as bad as it gets" and I don't think DareToDibble was saying he is either. 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, thetime said:

Be interesting if the Newcastle fans on here will be as critical on city, especially if the perspective new owners pump a lot of money in like his cousin. 

When have I said anything on that front? It's mostly Wooderson bitching about city's riches. 

I've moaned about Abrahamovich though. 

[Wooderson]

6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

When have I said anything on that front? It's mostly Wooderson bitching about city's riches. 

I've moaned about Abrahamovich though. 

_Whining_ more than bitching

[jyoung]

7 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

When have I said anything on that front? It's mostly Wooderson bitching about city's riches. 

I've moaned about Abrahamovich though. 

What's the problem with Chelsea but not City?

(Just out of interest)

[kaosmark2]

8 minutes ago, jyoung said:

What's the problem with Chelsea but not City?

(Just out of interest)

Abrahamovich came first and perpetuated Chelsea as a bigger club than Newcastle. We were regularly finishing 2nd-4th in the seasons under Robson before Abrahamovich took over (if you remember, the season before he did Liverpool finished 5th), but the big 4 formed off that.

Also Mourinho is more detestable than all City owners put together, Terry is a c**t, and I had to put up with my glory-hunting cousin who switched support from Leeds to Chelsea back in 04. 

And, while Chelsea turned the title race from a 3-way between Man U/Arsenal/Newc where we always lost into a Man U/Chelsea one, City broke apart the Man U/Chelsea one and led to exciting last-minute races, while generally playing better football.

Basically, 90% of it is due to my own subjective and personal preferences and grievances, rather than any rational criticism.

[jyoung]

15 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Also Mourinho is more detestable than all City owners put together, Terry is a c**t, and I had to put up with my glory-hunting cousin who switched support from Leeds to Chelsea back in 04.  

That's a bizarre one given that there was a fairly strong dislike from both teams towards one another.

[kaosmark2]

4 minutes ago, jyoung said:

That's a bizarre one given that there was a fairly strong dislike from both teams towards one another.

Yes. The background is that he lived in Yorkshire near Leeds, but his dad supported Chelsea so decided to switch that way. I still found it obnoxious.

[pink_triangle]

4 hours ago, jyoung said:

What's the problem with Chelsea but not City?

(Just out of interest)

Compare the two centre back figureheads Kompany and Terry. One oozes class, one oozes (struggling to find a word bad enough).

[pink_triangle]

11 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

It doesn't get any worse than losing your team completely, no doubt about that. Despite this, that doesn't take away from the fact that Ashley has been awful. Nothing DareToDibble said was unreasonable so I don't see why he needed any 'perspective'. 

As an Arsenal fan, there is a 5-6 year waiting list for season tickets and if I do manage to get one they are around £1500 a year. Then when I'm in the stadium the atmosphere is crap most the time anyway! 

The issues with being a fan of a big club is very different to being a fan of a smaller club. It's definitely not as simple as the fans of the big clubs have it all good and the fans of the smaller clubs have it bad. 

Just to clarify, I don't think Ashley is "as bad as it gets" and I don't think DareToDibble was saying he is either. 

If I thought fans of big clubs had it all good, I would support a big club! There are pros and cons of supporting at all levels. As I have said previously the thought of going into a season hoping to get to 40 points has zero appeal to me.

 

[kaosmark2]

16 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Compare the two centre back figureheads Kompany and Terry. One oozes class, one oozes (struggling to find a word bad enough).

It's the best example, but not the only one.

Also compare their big game high-scoring strikers. One of them has spent a lot more time rolling around on the floor like he's been shot, and it's not the slight Argentinian player.

There's generally been fewer really obnoxious people around City apart from their owners. Mark Hughes, Balotelli, Mancini, Robinho are about it? And Balotelli was one of those who was hilarious value as entertainment (ala Ibra/Cantona).

[kaosmark2]

Also, until Easty's rant at the end of this season here, I hadn't seen much classless gloating from City fans. Most of them generally seemed to appreciate that they got lucky with their club being mega-funded, and were fairly pleasant about not rubbing it in except to Man U fans.

Chelsea fans seemed more obnoxious and like they'd had a right to the success that came, instead of just being the first club to win the ownership lottery.

[jyoung]

8 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Compare the two centre back figureheads Kompany and Terry. One oozes class, one oozes (struggling to find a word bad enough).

Was talking about ownership but good to see people still flying the we hate JT flag.

[pink_triangle]

10 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Was talking about ownership but good to see people still flying the we hate JT flag.

I think a big part of the different response to Chelsea and City is you have had more dislikable players and managers. I get the impression however the neutral fans will turn against City soon.

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, jyoung said:

Was talking about ownership but good to see people still flying the we hate JT flag.

Well as I said, my stance is almost entirely based off the impact on me and my club instead of a rational criticism of different ownerships. 

Although Chelsea's hording and mass loaning has helped maintain my distaste for the club even after a number of hate figures have gone. 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think a big part of the different response to Chelsea and City is you have had more dislikable players and managers. I get the impression however the neutral fans will turn against City soon.

Tbf on the manager front, ancelotti, benitez, Hiddink, Scolari were all fairly classy. Certainly compared to say, Mark Hughes or Mancini in his last season. Though the endless firing doesn't endear me to the club either. 

[jyoung]

It's lesser cared about cup final day! To be fair, it being a London derby has added an extra bit of spice that has been missing throughout most of the comp. Not particularly confident; injuries to Rudiger, Kante, Loftus-Cheek and Hudson Odoi but when it's Arsenal and Chelsea it can always go either way. Hazard's last game so let's hope he goes out on a high.