Brexit at Glasto?

[DeanoL]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Labour will oppose a no deal brexit, and that's what we'll be faced with when Boris or whoever becomes PM (unless he does a spectacular about face). The time for a compromise brexit deal is pretty much over- it was important Labour tried for that so they can honestly say 'we tried in good faith' to hopefully piss off the brexiters less.

Honestly, the second referendum campaign is a red herring- the reality is we'll be faced with no deal or revoke (or general election), doubt we'll get to a second referendum. Boris seems to want no deal, and won't offer a second referendum. furthermore there will be no legislation to amend for opposition parties to force a second referendum (not that they had the numbers) as the Tory meltdown yesterday showed. If Boris decides no deal, and refuses any legislation that can be amended to stop it, then the only way to stop it will be to force a general election via a vote of no confidence.

I think Farage coming second in the EU elections would be a huge hit to him (I'd settle for Labour narrowing the gap and coming a close second)- him coming clear first with the left vote split pretty much evenly between Labour, Greens and Lib Dems will be a PR boost for the obnoxious toad man. 

But the number of MEPs any party has has no impact on any of that. It doesn't effect the UK parliamentary maths at all. I mean, to follow your logic to its conclusion, is the best option not to vote Tory? A strong showing for Theresa May would make it much harder for the Tories to oust her and replace her with No Deal Boris? 

[bombfrog]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

If Labour want me to support them they need to take a position I can support.

Can't upvote an admin but THIS ^^^^^, entirely this.

For me it's Labour in the generals, Lib Dem in the Euros.

[priest17]

I'm at a fucking loss of who to vote for.

I'm in a labour area anyway so it doesn't matter too much but I've fallen out with the current form of Labour so don't want to reward them for being totally useless. I've still not got round to properly forgiving LibDem's, and every time I do they do something really stupid. I'll never vote Tory. I'm a remoaner so a bunch of Indie's are out of the question. I'm not 18 any more so spoiling my ballot paper seems stupid. Basically leave's me with Greens who I'll never see as a real political force.

Feeling very lethargic about the whole thing. We're not only lying in a shit filled bed, the shit is getting constantly topped up, its tiring trying to clean it.

 

@ me if you think I'm being over-reactionary or just outright wrong.

[stuie]

I don't think I'm going to vote today as I don't see what difference it will make.

When people have said that to me in the past, I've been confused at their position and have tried to explain why it's important that we all vote.

I'm a lifelong labour supporter and member of the Labour Party.   I'm totally jaded with politics at the moment and have no confidence Corbyn.   Voting for Labour in my area is pointless, especially considering their position on Brexit, but I don't think I want to vote against it.

Regardless of the outcome of this vote, I expect we're still going to end up with a no deal / revoke / general election scenario later down the line.

Edited May 23, 2019 by stuie

[stuie]

13 minutes ago, priest17 said:

Feeling very lethargic about the whole thing. We're not only lying in a shit filled bed, the shit is getting constantly topped up, its tiring trying to clean it.

^^ This!

Exactly what I was trying to say above.

[alanr]

1 hour ago, paulo999 said:

If Labour want me to support them they need to take a position I can *understand*

Totally agree, this will be the first time in over 40 years I have felt unable to vote labour?

[Homer]

I'm just going to vote 'Remain' and then figure out my feelings about Labour later.

Was going Lib Dem but the tactical voting site says I should support Change UK...

[DeanoL]

19 minutes ago, priest17 said:

I'm at a fucking loss of who to vote for.

I'm in a labour area anyway so it doesn't matter too much but I've fallen out with the current form of Labour so don't want to reward them for being totally useless. I've still not got round to properly forgiving LibDem's, and every time I do they do something really stupid. I'll never vote Tory. I'm a remoaner so a bunch of Indie's are out of the question. I'm not 18 any more so spoiling my ballot paper seems stupid. Basically leave's me with Greens who I'll never see as a real political force.

Feeling very lethargic about the whole thing. We're not only lying in a shit filled bed, the shit is getting constantly topped up, its tiring trying to clean it.

 

@ me if you think I'm being over-reactionary or just outright wrong.

Because of how the elections are resolved, there's more power in voting for smaller parties than in a general elections. There's a decent chance in Manchester that Greens could get one MEP through with a few extra votes. That MEP would join with Green MEPs across Europe where they make up a small but not insignificant voting block (51 out of 751 MEPs). So it's not a wasted vote, if you think about this in terms of electing representatives in Europe.

If you think about it in terms of sending a message the current parties or influencing Brexit then fuck knows.

[priest17]

Just now, DeanoL said:

Because of how the elections are resolved, there's more power in voting for smaller parties than in a general elections. There's a decent chance in Manchester that Greens could get one MEP through with a few extra votes. That MEP would join with Green MEPs across Europe where they make up a small but not insignificant voting block (51 out of 751 MEPs). So it's not a wasted vote, if you think about this in terms of electing representatives in Europe.

If you think about it in terms of sending a message the current parties or influencing Brexit then fuck knows.

I'll definitely vote, I've just got a day of eyerolling at the news and everything before I finish work and pop over there ahah.

Green it is I reckon then

[paulo999]

32 minutes ago, alanr said:

Totally agree, this will be the first time in over 40 years I have felt unable to vote labour?

All these years I’ve been the same.

I’m now on a split between Green and Lib Dem. In my region either vote is meaningful.

(I won’t vote Labour in the next general either, if the current mealy mouthed “policy” continues.)

[Crazyfool01]

just been into town and found my 75 year old dad out campaigning for imvoting.eu campaign  who says the oldies dont have their heads screwed on  proud son  

Edited May 23, 2019 by crazyfool1
spelling error

[Fork_UK]

20 minutes ago, paulo999 said:

All these years I’ve been the same.

I’m now on a split between Green and Lib Dem. In my region either vote is meaningful.

(I won’t vote Labour in the next general either, if the current mealy mouthed “policy” continues.)

I'm also split between Green and Lib Dems.  I'm leaning (heavy heartedly) towards Lib Dem, as they seem to be the only ones who definitively want to stop Brexit by blocking any deal that doesn't have a People's Vote.  The Green's are anti-Brexit, but seem to be only interested in a second referendum, which I think is unlikely.  The Lib Dems seem more aggressive in their anti-Brexit plan, and as much as I wouldn't vote for them in a GE, they're winning me over for this one.  

I fear that the Greens (whom I prefer as a party) will split the remainers and prevent the Lib Dems from winning the seats they need and are already much closer to getting.  

Edited May 23, 2019 by Fork_UK

[tarw]

16 minutes ago, Fork_UK said:

I'm also split between Green and Lib Dems.  I'm leaning (heavy heartedly) towards Lib Dem, as they seem to be the only ones who definitively want to stop Brexit by blocking any deal that doesn't have a People's Vote.  The Green's are anti-Brexit, but seem to be only interested in a second referendum, which I think is unlikely.  The Lib Dems seem more aggressive in their anti-Brexit plan, and as much as I wouldn't vote for them in a GE, they're winning me over for this one.  

I fear that the Greens (whom I prefer as a party) will split the remainers and prevent the Lib Dems from winning the seats they need and are already much closer to getting.  

With the bastardised version of PR that the uk decided to use it is not a case of “splitting” the vote as you get an MEP for each 20%ish of the vote you get. Have a look at one of the remain tactical voting sites to see how to use your vote. Eg if Lib Dem’s are on about 20% and Greens 9%. Lib Dem’s need another 20% for an extra MEP. Greens only need another 11%

[paulo999]

17 minutes ago, Fork_UK said:

I'm also split between Green and Lib Dems.  I'm leaning (heavy heartedly) towards Lib Dem, as they seem to be the only ones who definitively want to stop Brexit by blocking any deal that doesn't have a People's Vote.  The Green's are anti-Brexit, but seem to be only interested in a second referendum, which I think is unlikely.  The Lib Dems seem more aggressive in their anti-Brexit plan, and as much as I wouldn't vote for them in a GE, they're winning me over for this one.  

I fear that the Greens (whom I prefer as a party) will split the remainers and prevent the Lib Dems from winning the seats they need and are already much closer to getting.  

I think - for the MEPs - anyone who is a remainer like me has to know that the flagship opposition, Farage, is going to walk this on the basis of counting party numbers.

So in terms of where to vote if you object... the remain vote split is well, very split even in just England

Add the SNP and Plaid Cymru in, and there is a substantial number of MEP positions that lie with Remain.

Do you know which region you’re in for the vote (not meaning to sound patronising, I had to look mine up and understand the seats held) 

 

 

[sime]

I voted Green. Not just for the fact that they are a Remain party but also because of their environmental policies. Both views which I would like represented within the EU.

[Homer]

Just checked two different tactical voting sites.

One told me to vote Change UK,  the other Lib Dem or Green. Most helpful!

[Penrhos]

Don't get despondent - get out and vote....If you don't vote you can't complain, even if you make it a protest vote.

I wish there was an extra option "None of the above" so you can register your displeasure with the system.

This is a real opportunity to get some Green party MEP's as the traditional Conservative/Labour voters will be split between Conservative/Labour/UKIP/Brexit/Change UK. As they give the political finger to to May/Corbin for making a complete arse of Brexit & Democracy by trying to score political points against each other and factions within their own parties.

 

[Fork_UK]

1 hour ago, paulo999 said:

I think - for the MEPs - anyone who is a remainer like me has to know that the flagship opposition, Farage, is going to walk this on the basis of counting party numbers.

So in terms of where to vote if you object... the remain vote split is well, very split even in just England

Add the SNP and Plaid Cymru in, and there is a substantial number of MEP positions that lie with Remain.

Do you know which region you’re in for the vote (not meaning to sound patronising, I had to look mine up and understand the seats held) 

 

 

I'm voting in London.  I've been using the remainunited.org website which suggests Lib Dem as my tactical vote, but have been looking around for alternatives, since I'd prefer not to have to vote for them, but am training myself to understand that it's a tactical vote, not necessarily the party I support the most.  

 

I fully confess to needing some education on how the Euro elections work, so am putting my trust in these tactical voting websites.   

Edited May 23, 2019 by Fork_UK

[bombfrog]

2 hours ago, priest17 said:

I'm at a fucking loss of who to vote for.

I know exactly how you feel. Remainvoter.com says that in the South East the tactical vote should go to Change UK but other remain groups say Lib Dems is the tactical vote. I had no idea really.

[Crazyfool01]

it seems the tactical voting sites are equally as split as the country in some areas  

[bombfrog]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

I don't think I'm going to vote today as I don't see what difference it will make.

Every vote that isn't for Nigel Farage is a vote for somebody that isn't Nigel Farage.

Edited May 23, 2019 by bombfrog

[stuie]

1 minute ago, bombfrog said:

Every vote that isn't for Nigel Farage is a vote for somebody that isn't for Nigel Farage.

I'm going to vote after work - I've already changed my mind, was just having a wobbly.

 

[gigpusher]

4 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

Every vote that isn't for Nigel Farage is a vote for somebody that isn't for Nigel Farage.

In my region it's also a vote for someone that isn't Tommy Robinson!! We were a bit confused as well so hubby voted for Lib Dem's and I voted Green. One or both of us should hopefully be doing something to combat the rise of facism. 

[thrillhouse188]

31 minutes ago, Fork_UK said:

I fully confess to needing some education on how the Euro elections work, so am putting my trust in these tactical voting websites.   

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27187434 explains it well, essentially split by region and proportional representation. Point is that polls can have a fairly decent idea of the vote split, and so tactical voting will basically be voting for the remain party who need fewest votes to give them an extra seat.

[didinowanttohearthat]

31 minutes ago, Fork_UK said:

I'm voting in London.  I've been using the remainunited.org website which suggests Lib Dem as my tactical vote, but have been looking around for alternatives, since I'd prefer not to have to vote for them, but am training myself to understand that it's a tactical vote, not necessarily the party I support the most.  

 

I fully confess to needing some education on how the Euro elections work, so am putting my trust in these tactical voting websites.   

The system works like this:  the top voted party in the region gets the first seat, then their total is halved. Then for the second seat its counted again with the next highest winning seat 2 (could be the same party if they got a lot of votes) then that party's number is halved. So on until all the seats are filled.