Brexit at Glasto?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Rumours that three Tory backbenchers (Grieve and two other less vocal anti-Brexiters) are planning to resign the Tory whip today. I won’t get my hopes up but if it happens then Johnson will officially be running a minority government, even with the DUP on board. Kate Hoey and Caroline Flint would probably ensure he could survive a VONC, but he’s certainly teetering on the edge.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Rose-Colored Boy

[frostypaw]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The high Labour vote was over Brexit, same as the current LD surge.

And are you really claiming that brexit and Jez is the only true Labour path? Really? Really?   

Was it?!?!? Because Labour were being so anti brexit right.

....

And in no way whatsoever have I ever suggested that "brexit and Jez is the only true Labour path"

Can't argue defending things I've not said.

 

You're going to have to show me any evidence of this "jez pleading guilty others pleading innocence" nonsense, it's just fictional. It's not happened. It's a real sign of how farcical political discussion has gotten in this country that it's simplified down to a Punch & Judy show. Labour members saying "there's no particular antisemitism problem and less than in other parties, so why the laser focus here?" is not "pleading innocence" or denying there's any problem with antisemitism at all - obviously - it's the perfectly rational thing of questioning why the laser focus here? Why now? 

 

Exactly the same will happen with whoever's next. It's not the right problem, we deserve what we're getting now and Boris as PM - we are a joke and until people can handle politics past black and white and pantomime villains we're stuck here.

[priest17]

2 hours ago, frostypaw said:

Was it?!?!? Because Labour were being so anti brexit right.

....

And in no way whatsoever have I ever suggested that "brexit and Jez is the only true Labour path"

Can't argue defending things I've not said.

 

You're going to have to show me any evidence of this "jez pleading guilty others pleading innocence" nonsense, it's just fictional. It's not happened. It's a real sign of how farcical political discussion has gotten in this country that it's simplified down to a Punch & Judy show. Labour members saying "there's no particular antisemitism problem and less than in other parties, so why the laser focus here?" is not "pleading innocence" or denying there's any problem with antisemitism at all - obviously - it's the perfectly rational thing of questioning why the laser focus here? Why now? 

 

Exactly the same will happen with whoever's next. It's not the right problem, we deserve what we're getting now and Boris as PM - we are a joke and until people can handle politics past black and white and pantomime villains we're stuck here.

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn would be a good prime minister?

[frostypaw]

1 hour ago, priest17 said:

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn would be a good prime minister?

Not particularly, but better than what we've got.

I'd prefer it to more authoritarianism and an approach other than the wild pendulum swings that keep us in this mess would be very welcome.

Sadly at the moment I mostly see people wanting "this in reverse" with a 'strong and firm' remain leader leaving the leave portion crushed and ignored instead. Then we're just back swung the other way and we can go around again and again and again.

Country's too divided for that sort of thing, will only entrench it. A softer touch is needed now, then we can get back to strong and firm once we've a single idea what direction we're heading in.

[Madyaker]

There'll surely be a general election soon?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

19 hours ago, Madyaker said:

There'll surely be a general election soon?

The new occupier of 10 Downing Street is already positioning for one. Every major party except Labour and UKIP The Brexit Party would probably prefer it to come before 31st October rather than in November onwards, and Johnson is every bit as cocky as May was when she went on her walking trip in Spring 2017, so it’ll probably happen after the summer recess.

[bamber]

Have a listen to this. We live in very peculiar times. Christopher Hitchens would have made a much better PM than Boris. He is the same sort of Socialist as me.There is nothing wrong with a well educated liberal elite leading us. Boris is well educated, arguably liberal, but that just proves that those who are governed are bound by the law and do not have any sort of final say in what the leader decrees.

I am thoroughly miserable. This country/world stinks, racist, xenophobic karnts abide.

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by bamber

[bamber]

This is so last week.

 

The moon landings were a great thing. My good friend Matty staged an open air cinema screening of the CNN movie  "Apollo 11" down at Pwll Du beach last Sunday, an engrossing and wildly wondrous experience.

Gil Scott-Heron had a different take on the whole thing.

A lot of people down there at Pwll Du voted Leave. I cannot understand why many of my friends did that, but they did.

Here we are.

 

[ghostdancer1]

 

On 7/25/2019 at 5:23 PM, Madyaker said:

There'll surely be a general election soon?

well if there was,  a few polls released this evening:

Quote

DeltaPoll

Con 30
Lab 25
Lib Dem 18
Brexit 14

Resulting in:

Con 321
Lab 224
Lib Dem 46
SNP 37
Plaid 3
Brexit 0
 

Same with "Labour with a different leader than Corbyn":

Lab 34
Con 28
Brexit 14
Lib Dem 13

Which, seats-wise, is:

Lab 331
Con 236
SNP 33
Lib Dem 28
Brexit 2
Plaid 2
 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

Opinium for Observer
Con 30% +7
Lab 28% +3
Lib Dem 16% +1
Brexit 15% -7
Green 5% -3
(Change since 2 weeks ago)

Which translates in seats to about:

Con 301
Lab 253
Lib Dems 37
SNP 37
Plaid 3
Brexit 1
 

 

 

Quote

YouGov:

Con 31 (+6)
Lab 21 (+2)
Lib Dem 20 (-3)
Brexit 13 (-4)

Seats:

Con 358
Lab 183
Lib Dem 51
SNP 35
Plaid 4
Brexit 0

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by ghostdancer1

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Interesting. When it comes to the crunch I will be very surprised if the Scottish Torys are able to hold off the SNP in enough seats that Sturgeon’s total is still under 40. Ruth Davidson’s group haven’t exactly been noticeable as a liberal restraint on the rest of the Tory Party.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Rose-Colored Boy

[bamber]

I agree with Corbyn 90% of the way. He is a good man, but he is toxic for the Labour Party.

This Woman should be our leader. Would win an election vs Boris.

[bamber]

Boris is no Clown, neither is Trump. Those of us on the left who claim to see Clowns do our movement a disservice.

The fight starts with a convincing argument.

Centrist Socialism is what will win in the end. It might take a long time. I fear Brexit and Make America Great again has to fail first before any progress can resume. 10 years maybe?

Go Liz Kendall!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/29/liz-kendall-will-back-white-working-class-young

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by bamber

[MrZigster]

2 hours ago, bamber said:

This is so last week.

 

The moon landings were a great thing. My good friend Matty staged an open air cinema screening of the CNN movie  "Apollo 11" down at Pwll Du beach last Sunday, an engrossing and wildly wondrous experience.

Gil Scott-Heron had a different take on the whole thing.

A lot of people down there at Pwll Du voted Leave. I cannot understand why many of my friends did that, but they did.

Here we are.

 

This is also so last week. But is a relevant and true story:

Just around the corner from me where I grew up is a pub called The Louis Armstrong (I believe it is fairly famous amongst jazz aficionados). I passed this place pretty much every day as a kid. It had a typical pub sign depicting said person swinging outside.

For years I honestly held the belief that The First Man On The Moon was an African-American gentleman. Like they must be brothers/family. I'm sure my elders knew this and just thought it was funny to let me hold this delusion.

As you were.

Seriously, fuck brexit. It's being spoken about like a done deal now. Deal or not, it's happening. A general election is needed. What happened to all that "if Boris gets in I'll resign, majority lost,  a GE will happen"?

It just seems stupid. South East Kent has been gridlocked with just regular tourist and freight traffic this weekend. That's without freight having to be checked.

Brexit at Glasto? Muse were headlining that year. I was looking forward to them doing United States Of Eurasia after the obvious remain victory. I'd really like to know if that was on the setlist beforehand.

 

[frostypaw]

3 hours ago, ghostdancer1 said:

Same with "Labour with a different leader than Corbyn":

It's a bit like the Brexit poll again though isn't it - Corbyn or Mystery Box Containing Your Ideal Candidate with Your Ideal Policies, plus a really clear way to answer to skew things if you wanted to.

Once broken down into actual candidates it'd get messier.

Meh, I'm fairly resigned to this working and us staying with the Tories tbh, clearly got further down to go.

[bamber]

2 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

It's a bit like the Brexit poll again though isn't it - Corbyn or Mystery Box Containing Your Ideal Candidate with Your Ideal Policies, plus a really clear way to answer to skew things if you wanted to.

Once broken down into actual candidates it'd get messier.

Meh, I'm fairly resigned to this working and us staying with the Tories tbh, clearly got further down to go.

We are all whistling in the wind now it seems? Fully, utterly, Fucked.

I hoped this meant something.

We are nothing without a leader.

 

 

 

[bamber]

[Madyaker]

I think it would be a huge spike in Boris' plans if Corbyn stepped down. A new Labour leader - any new Labour leader - would make Labour more electable. If Corbyn were to step down now and, say, Starmer were to take over. It would give Labour a bit more time to set out their remain position to the electorate, and form a remain alliance. If Boris thinks he can get a majority over the Corbyn led Labour in a general election, he might have to think again if a Labour led remain alliance emerged as a viable alternative.

At this point, Corbyn is probably doing just as much to sabotage the UK as the ERG, if he knows this he is complicit. If he doesn't know this he is should be gone anyway. Basically he needs to go, they need to form a remain alliance with the lib dems and save us all fom this insanity. Can't understand why people aren't out on the streets tbh.

[mcshed]

2 minutes ago, Madyaker said:

Can't understand why people aren't out on the streets tbh.

Are you out on the streets? If not that's probably the same reason others aren't.

[Madyaker]

Not many brexit protests in the west of Ireland but if our government were behaving the way yours are there would be

[ghostdancer1]

still can't work out if JC is extremely thick, or just a lying scumbag

 

[frostypaw]

3 hours ago, Madyaker said:

Can't understand why people aren't out on the streets tbh.

Because it's still 50/50 https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

 

Speaking even as a Remainer our side has gotten as bad as theirs now, assuming everyone's on side and all we need is a strong Remain leader and we'd wipe the board. We're so far from that point. A unilateral Remain now will still do deep injury to this country.

[Homer]

An old colleague was spouting off about Leave for umpteenth time on Facebook yesterday morning, so I finally waded in and asked what his solution to the Irish border problem was. He said he was busy and had to go out,so I said fine, let me know. He still hasn't replied. I've never noticed this is a definite pattern when you ask Leavers this question. Anyone know what Johnson's plan is? Or is he still relying on the invisible technology that is so invisible no one has ever actually seen it?

[Scott129]

26 minutes ago, Homer said:

I finally waded in and asked what his solution to the Irish border problem was.

My experience is that most leave voters don't care one bit about the irish border. I raised it with someone and they're answer was "we voted to leave. If northern ireland don't like it they can just leave the union". I think a poll showed tory members felt the same way. 

Interestingly, Nancy Pelosi has said they won't ratify a trade deal if the border problem isn't resolved. I'd have thought it would have been main news given it seems to scupper Johnson's plans but i've not actually heard the BBC etc mention it

[Homer]

15 minutes ago, Scott129 said:

My experience is that most leave voters don't care one bit about the irish border. I raised it with someone and they're answer was "we voted to leave. If northern ireland don't like it they can just leave the union". I think a poll showed tory members felt the same way. 

Interestingly, Nancy Pelosi has said they won't ratify a trade deal if the border problem isn't resolved. I'd have thought it would have been main news given it seems to scupper Johnson's plans but i've not actually heard the BBC etc mention it

What a stupid response, being that one of May's red lines was that she couldn't sign anything that treating NI differently to the rest of the UK. I tried to pin a Brexiteer down like that and he eventually said 'it's not my problem'. I asked him that if people started getting killed again, would that also not be his problem and he repeatedly refused to reply.

Ireland isn't really much to do with me, but I still think we need to respect the GFA and I certainly don't want to see a return to the troubles. A lot of Brexiteers just seem to see it as 'this is what I want' and lack the critical thinking skills to see the bigger picture beyond that. And also, I guess there is a thought process of 'we're England, everyone else should fall in line with us'. I find the mental gymnastics involved not to give a shit really weird/frustrating personally.

[Scott129]

43 minutes ago, Homer said:

A lot of Brexiteers just seem to see it as 'this is what I want' and lack the critical thinking skills to see the bigger picture beyond that. And also, I guess there is a thought process of 'we're England, everyone else should fall in line with us'. I find the mental gymnastics involved not to give a shit really weird/frustrating personally.

Yeah i agree, although I think part of the problem is brexiteers haven't necessarily been given the opportunity to "climb down" from their position. Since the day after the referendum we've had a minority of ardent remainers calling them stupid etc and therefore its a bit embarrassing for them to now change their mind and easier just to not engage with any problems. 

I think given that People's Vote and the Lib Dems have basically been in full campaign mode for 3 years and no one seems to have changed their mind (I certainly don't know any leave voters who have) speaks volumes for how bad their tactics have been. If a second referendum happens then the leaders of the campaign need to make a much more positive case for the EU, freedom of movement etc. We know Johnson is going to call anyone remotely negative a naysayer who doesn't believe in Britain and I think that's quite an appealing argument to a lot of people.