Primavera Sound 2020

[Chilly Toad]

1 hour ago, xxialac said:

You're not allowed to speed on the motorway either but half of people do. The rules just won't be adhered to.

Oh, they will. If not, people will be fined and there will be consequences for the organizer. You really think there won´t be tight controls?

[xxialac]

5 minutes ago, Chilly Toad said:

Oh, they will. If not, people will be fined and there will be consequences for the organizer. You really think there won´t be tight controls?

I don't think there will be tight controls, no. 

Because no one is going to want to go to an event and stand 9 metres away from their friends.

[Ohjesus]

14 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I don't think there will be tight controls, no. 

Because no one is going to want to go to an event and stand 9 metres away from their friends.

I think somewhere in power this exact same conversation is happening, strengthening the argument for no PS20. 

[daveje]

Going to a gig or a music festival isn't a non-contact sport.

[Chilly Toad]

15 hours ago, xxialac said:

I don't think there will be tight controls, no. 

Because no one is going to want to go to an event and stand 9 metres away from their friends.

Sorry, I don't understand. It's nine square meters, and are you saying that there won't be controls/enforcement because people don't want the rules? Damn, should have told that to the police last time they caught me speeding!

[Chilly Toad]

Also, how can that make sense economically? With those numbers of tickets to be sold, how do you pay the artists?

[puckno]

22 hours ago, ghostdancer1 said:

I must have imagined the festivals here that have voluntarily cancelled without government requirement to do so yet.....

You might have found a very few... for discussion purposes they serve as the odd exceptions that confirms the rule.

20 hours ago, dabber7 said:

This is how you keep your customers onside Primavera ...

And I am sure Primavera will communicate along similar lines when the government cancellation is in place.  Primavera, as well as almost all other festivals, won't forfeit their force majeure legal rights by cancelling the festival by themselves. It could potentially ruin the festival for all future.

[xxialac]

1 hour ago, Chilly Toad said:

Sorry, I don't understand. It's nine square meters, and are you saying that there won't be controls/enforcement because people don't want the rules? Damn, should have told that to the police last time they caught me speeding!

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Event organisers don't want people to be nine square metres apart (no one will return if enforced), the attendees don't want to be nine square metres apart.

So they will fudge it - controls at the gate will give the impression it is being enforced. Then inside people will gather together in friendship groups and no one will complain because it is neither in the organisers or attendees' interests to do so. The police will turn a blind eye, as there will be 'some' controls.

Edited April 30, 2020 by xxialac

[JedTheHumanoid]

Generally I agree with @xxialac , you can't really enforce it (unless there are cops there giving fines, which I doubt will go that far).  but if the government states they will give a huge fine to Primavera if they don't enforce it properly- will they take the risk with something they can't enforce?

And there can also be a different kind of enforcement- something like the government saying that if you have X square feet on premiss, you can't sell more than Y tickets. this can be a different deal (although the park has enough empty spaces that this calculation can be fine, unless you count only the stages area). 

Bottom line - too soon to tell, too many unknowns with this plan

 

[xxialac]

Yes, @JedTheHumanoid though I  wasn't really thinking about Primavera but about events more generally.

Obviously the big hope is that by June things have improved dramatically with vaccines etc.

"if you have X square feet on premiss, you can't sell more than Y tickets"

I think that's exactly how they'll do it. Will have a license for a certain number of people simply based on the available space. But people will still cluster with their friends as it is no fun being 9 feet away (to the point where no one goes). 

[xxialac]

https://www.diarimes.com/noticies/actualitat/2020/04/30/el_primavera_sound_agost_per_tot_que_ens_arriba_sembla_que_no_podra_ser_81492_1095.html

Final death throes. Think I read the declaration announcement expected on Wednesday,

[thespiral]

12 hours ago, xxialac said:

https://www.diarimes.com/noticies/actualitat/2020/04/30/el_primavera_sound_agost_per_tot_que_ens_arriba_sembla_que_no_podra_ser_81492_1095.html

Final death throes. Think I read the declaration announcement expected on Wednesday,

Yep. Game over it seems.

Financially could do with the refund tbh. Have lost hotel money - it was thru booking.com non refundable - they did say they would transfer my booking to the August dates ...which of course not much use.  Flights from UK still live but i'm sure will be cancelled - and that seems a lottery now for getting your money back. Been waiting over a month for some other flight refunds.

I think we have all had enough of this year  

 

 

[xxialac]

26 minutes ago, thespiral said:

Yep. Game over it seems.

Financially could do with the refund tbh. Have lost hotel money - it was thru booking.com non refundable - they did say they would transfer my booking to the August dates ...which of course not much use.  Flights from UK still live but i'm sure will be cancelled - and that seems a lottery now for getting your money back. Been waiting over a month for some other flight refunds.

I think we have all had enough of this year  

 

 

Yeah very sad on a lot of fronts.

I do think you can get your hotel refunded with a lost of persistence or worst case rescheduled for June next year if you can go. So all not lost there. And if you booked with a major airline you’ll also get a voucher as a worst case scenario. Not great at all but not as bad as losing the money altogether.

[duckula]

So August is dead now confirmed?

[riseupandkill]

59 minutes ago, duckula said:

So August is dead now confirmed?

not officially but the article posted above doesn't make it look very likely, with quotes from PS organisers

[Chilly Toad]

Well, Cruilla festival has at least given an explanation why they made/published no decision yet while at the same time giving a probable date for the decision and practically confirming the tickets will be valid for 2021 oder refunded. Some consider informing their customers important, some not so much... Anyway, this is most probably what´s going to happen in the case of Primavera too, even if they still stick to the now grotesque "once in a lifetime" storyline on all their channels.

[xxialac]

So Cruilla have now said something. And it is now predicted that there will be a decree on Tuesday that will clear this mess up (though the state of emergency is being extended). If Primavera announce cancellation then and refunds offered, does that still mean that Cruilla=good and Primavera=bad? Does a couple of days' difference mean so much?

And "Primavera (Spring) in Summer, once in a lifetime" - is that really 'grotesque'? It's not like the called it Primavera Corona Death Celebration is it...

[Chilly Toad]

I know you´ll defend them forever and you are linked to / work for them, ralgex/xxialac,  but is it really so hard to just give a statement like this? Really? If you think so, why? And "Primavera in Summer" has become grotesque some time ago when for everybody but people who just decided to close their eyes on the issue it became clear that it will can not happen. Plus who said Primavera=bad? That´s not the issue at all. My issue is the lack of customer friendliness and transparent communication of Primavera when it would be so easy to change that.

[Declan]

To be honest, is what Cruilla have said pretty much what Primavera have been saying (albeit cryptically)?

[Chilly Toad]

Where did they? To their customers? Even if (I don´t know where), what´s so hard to NOT say it cryptically like Cruilla? Write a few friendly lines, put them in your Facebook/Twitter accounts? A matter of minutes, really, if you only want to do it.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Chilly Toad

[xxialac]

10 minutes ago, Chilly Toad said:

I know you´ll defend them forever and you are linked to / work for them, ralgex/xxialac,  but is it really so hard to just give a statement like this? Really? If you think so, why? And "Primavera in Summer" has become grotesque some time ago when for everybody but people who just decided to close their eyes on the issue it became clear that it will can not happen. Plus who said Primavera=bad? That´s not the issue at all. My issue is the lack of customer friendliness and transparent communication of Primavera when it would be so easy to change that.

I'm not linked to them/work for them, guess we just respectfully disagree which is fair enough.

All I was saying is that Cruilla was being praised for 'informing their customers' but it's a very complex situation and I'm sure Primavera will do the same when very soon indeed which looks like being the same week as Cruilla. There are reasons behind what they've done. Spanish festivals have been nervous about saying anything that makes the situation worse.

Look at BBK. Look at Sonar. Look at Mad Cool, Azkena etc. They're all the same, they are waiting to have the govt declare force majeure.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/amp/cultura/2020-05-01/festivales-musica-coronavirus-devolucion-entradas_2573615/?utm_source=upday

[Chilly Toad]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

There are reasons behind what they've done.

I´m listening, go ahead. Why don´t they do a statement for their customers?

[xxialac]

Just now, Chilly Toad said:

I´m listening, go ahead. Why don´t they do a statement for their customers?

I don't know but I'm sure they have their reasons. Maybe insurance-related?

Personally I'd rather have no statement and a refund than a statement and no refund.

INmusic, SXSW, Ultra and I'm sure many others as we are about to find out - no refund

Primavera will give refunds, certainly

[daveje]

Cruilla haven't confirmed anything AFAICS but at least they're communicating, which is more than Primavera are doing. Primavera's communications are crap, is this news to anyone?

Not that it makes any difference in practice. Cruilla and Primavera are both in the same boat: they can't unilaterally cancel until the government says so, otherwise they're dead as companies. BTW, Cruilla customers have no more assurance on refunds right now than Primavera customers do: "different options" isn't a 100% guarantee, otherwise they would say 100% guarantee. I don't know if anyone else is looking at the wider tourism picture, but European governments (including Germany, Spain, Italy and France) are pushing the EU to abolish the rules and allow airlines to issue vouchers instead of refunds for cancelled flights. This is the pattern for the tourism/cultural sector, it seems.

Cruilla won't happen in July, Primavera won't happen in August. Everyone knows it. This year is done. If you want the festivals happening again next year, think about vouchers instead of refunds.

[zbo]

1 hour ago, daveje said:

Cruilla haven't confirmed anything AFAICS but at least they're communicating, which is more than Primavera are doing. Primavera's communications are crap, is this news to anyone?

Not that it makes any difference in practice. Cruilla and Primavera are both in the same boat: they can't unilaterally cancel until the government says so, otherwise they're dead as companies. BTW, Cruilla customers have no more assurance on refunds right now than Primavera customers do: "different options" isn't a 100% guarantee, otherwise they would say 100% guarantee. I don't know if anyone else is looking at the wider tourism picture, but European governments (including Germany, Spain, Italy and France) are pushing the EU to abolish the rules and allow airlines to issue vouchers instead of refunds for cancelled flights. This is the pattern for the tourism/cultural sector, it seems.

Cruilla won't happen in July, Primavera won't happen in August. Everyone knows it. This year is done. If you want the festivals happening again next year, think about vouchers instead of refunds.

thanks, this is the first reasonable comment I’ve read since long ago