Is it OK to book bands who sing about killing Tories?

[Winslow Leach]

33 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

'Kill a Labour MP' is what actually happened and I reckon if someone was singing that they'd be less excusing of it by people here.

 

Imagine if this thing that isn't happening... was happening.

[rubick]

Would be pretty funny if a shedload of bands did a cover version of the offending song. 

[Chris Wilders Moretti]

1 minute ago, rubick said:

Would be pretty funny if a shedload of bands did a cover version of the offending song. 

It looks like they've shifted a load of t-shirts since this all kicked off

Wouldn't be surprised to see a few acts rocking their 'kill tory scum' tops

[bennyboi]

Was the Mail the first to "break" this?

Such shite, the  whole violent lyric argument is mute. If these half wits want song lines they can quote they should listen to some Wu tang or even bloody Stormzy! But they don't involve any Tories so there's no issues????

Edited June 3, 2019 by bennyboi

[Joe Shez]

7 minutes ago, Chris Wilders Moretti said:

It looks like they've shifted a load of t-shirts since this all kicked off

Wouldn't be surprised to see a few acts rocking their 'kill tory scum' tops

I can 100% imagine Fat White Family doing something similar now (if they don’t get cancelled) 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Imagine if this thing that isn't happening... was happening.

it is happening, just for a different group of MPs.  

 

[The Martini Police]

34 minutes ago, Winslow Leach said:

Imagine if this thing that isn't happening... was happening.

What? That wasn't whataboutery as you seem to be implying, it was a valid and important point. It shouldn't matter whether they're Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, UKIP, Green or any other party politicians in this debate. The question should be about whether it's okay to include lyrics about such a horrendous idea (and it obviously is, regardless of political party) in a song (and be booked by Glastonbury) rather than if it's okay to say it about tories. We need to be consistent on it, as Neil has rightly alluded to. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by The Martini Police

[Winslow Leach]

Look, the only fair thing to do is to keep booking bands until every section of society has been directly threatened. Now That's What I Call Equality '56.

[gigpusher]

11 hours ago, marcoolio said:

To be fair to Voltaire, he never actually said it.

It comes from a 1906 biography by Evelyn Beatrice Hall, in which it was intended to represent a summary of his thinking on free speech issues. “I did not mean to imply,” she wrote later, “that Voltaire used these words verbatim.”

I did say at least we think he was the originator. I do believe in free speech though and I worry very much about thought policing! Are the crime writers still allowed to appear they have made up whole murders and could no doubt give people ideas. 

Some people say angry things or create angry art but actually that artistic release makes it less likely that they would do these things. 

[gratefulbread]

3 hours ago, Fred Zepplin said:

Why weren’t primal screamed banned from playing? They’ve a song called kill all hippies and it they sing it in their lyrics :

‘Hello this is gorgeous, anybody out there read me?
10-4 I read you.
My handle's gorgeous, pretty vacant, eh
Subvert normality
Fuck you!
Punk is not sexual, it's just aggression
10-4 old buddies
Destroy, Kill all hippies
Anarchy! Disco sucks
Subvert Normality’

 

they played this song on the pyramid in 2005

Gonna have to blast XTRMNTR while.im working today now. Get in. 

[Winslow Leach]

3 hours ago, Fred Zepplin said:

Why weren’t primal screamed banned from playing? They’ve a song called kill all hippies and it they sing it in their lyrics :

‘Hello this is gorgeous, anybody out there read me?
10-4 I read you.
My handle's gorgeous, pretty vacant, eh
Subvert normality
Fuck you!
Punk is not sexual, it's just aggression
10-4 old buddies
Destroy, Kill all hippies
Anarchy! Disco sucks
Subvert Normality’

 

they played this song on the pyramid in 2005

Bit off topic, but the film that clip is sampled from is pretty underrated and Linda Manz should have been a much bigger name than she ended up being.

[Mark E. Spliff]

Glastonbury is one of the few major UK institutions that has the power to stick two fingers up at the right wing media and demonstrate an alternative to their mean-spirited view of society.  Caving in to them is a shameful, cowardly decision and, if there were any way to meaningfully protest against this, I would.

(I have no 'conflict' over the lyrics in question.  Context is everything - the audience of a band like this will be intelligent, decent folk who can distinguish between art and a call to arms.)

[Mark Doran]

I've just been reading about life in Germany in the 1930s and I believe we should be careful to learn the lessons of history.

"Kill Jewish Scum" would have been a perfectly acceptable song at the time.

[guypjfreak]

2 hours ago, chatty said:

They should write and sing whatever they want. Take away the bands freedom to write and you night as well start voting Tory.

If you don't like it just don't go and see them, it's up to you whether to be offended or not, it's not on them, you can bypass it easy enough, there's like 99 other stages to go to.

Totally agree

As most people know I hate rapcrap and grim up that's my choice and I'll not watch them but that's not to say that they shouldn't play or write songs.... 

 

They shouldn't headline tho lol 

 

Just been on TV...... Probably best thing to happen to this band ever lol

Edited June 3, 2019 by guypjfreak

[guypjfreak]

1 minute ago, Mark Doran said:

I've just been reading about life in Germany in the 1930s and I believe we should be careful to learn the lessons of history.

"Kill Jewish Scum" would have been a perfectly acceptable song at the time.

Good point... 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, Mark Doran said:

I've just been reading about life in Germany in the 1930s and I believe we should be careful to learn the lessons of history.

"Kill Jewish Scum" would have been a perfectly acceptable song at the time.

As people have been saying, context is important.  It's perfectly consistent to be generally in favour of free speech for satirists, but not for Nazis.

[hfuhruhurr]

51 minutes ago, priest17 said:

I notice they were happy for Dead Kennedies to play Kill The Poor a couple of years ago.

But that I think is the difference - The DKs lyrics are a hell of a lot cleverer than a direct and specific "kill tory scum". Most punk lyrics have some anti-establishment lyrics that can be taken out of context. For me, the issue is Kill Tory Scum was released in 2017, post 2016 Jo Cox and the band want people to wear the T-Shirt. It's like Sid wearing his swastika - for me Nazi punks could fuck right off.

[Chris Wilders Moretti]

39 minutes ago, Mark Doran said:

I've just been reading about life in Germany in the 1930s and I believe we should be careful to learn the lessons of history.

"Kill Jewish Scum" would have been a perfectly acceptable song at the time.

 

35 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

But that I think is the difference - The DKs lyrics are a hell of a lot cleverer than a direct and specific "kill tory scum". Most punk lyrics have some anti-establishment lyrics that can be taken out of context. For me, the issue is Kill Tory Scum was released in 2017, post 2016 Jo Cox and the band want people to wear the T-Shirt. It's like Sid wearing his swastika - for me Nazi punks could fuck right off.

this is not like calling for the deaths of Jewish people or wearing a swastika.

complete false equivalencies 

It seems the argument now has gone full Alex jones  "the anti fascists are actually the fascists"

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Chris Wilders Moretti said:

complete false equivalencies 

if you want to claim "kill all tories" as harmless irony then you're giving free reign for others to use the same excuse. 

[dentalplan]

I feel like the “(Before They Kill You)” bit of the title is being needlessly missed from discourse. 

[priest17]

39 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

But that I think is the difference - The DKs lyrics are a hell of a lot cleverer than a direct and specific "kill tory scum". Most punk lyrics have some anti-establishment lyrics that can be taken out of context. For me, the issue is Kill Tory Scum was released in 2017, post 2016 Jo Cox and the band want people to wear the T-Shirt. It's like Sid wearing his swastika - for me Nazi punks could fuck right off.

I don't think its quite the same as people wearing swastikas. Showing support for a government regime that committed genocide isn't the same as effectively a politically slanted 'out-there' marketing campaign. There's no actual talk of violence in the song. The video at the end clarifies killing tories in the ballot box by voting. I'm not gonna go out and buy one of these t-shirts and it's a bit misjudged but its not the same.

Plus its not kill all tories, just the scum ones!

[Chris Wilders Moretti]

Just now, eFestivals said:

if you want to claim "kill all tories" as harmless irony then you're giving free reign for others to use the same excuse. 

As has been mentioned before, context is everything.

Tyler the creator and Nick Cave have lyrics about all sorts of horrendous crimes, have the people that listen to those artists gone out and committed those acts? no they haven't

Just as people who listen to anarchist punk aren't going out and murdering Tories and Police

Jo Cox didn't die because of a song, She died because of an truly evil ideology that this country has let go unchallenged for too long.

Now, if we want to get into banning things from the festival that people find distasteful, I suggest we start with Zac Goldsmith

[gigpusher]

1 minute ago, dentalplan said:

I feel like the “(Before They Kill You)” bit of the title is being needlessly missed from discourse. 

That certainly changes the context but vote out all Tories would probably be more effective. 

I don't like the lyrics just like I don't like Zac Goldsmith and the many abhorrent things he has said but I still believe they should be able to play the festival. That being said the festival also have the right to say we don't like the things you have to say and don't want you associated with the festival. It is a very complex one. I worry about the road of stopping people from performing because of involvement of right wing press more than anything else. 

Freedom of speech is a right but if you choose to deal in hate speech people who own large scale platforms have the right to say they don't want to give you their megaphone. 

[jump]

7 minutes ago, dentalplan said:

I feel like the “(Before They Kill You)” bit of the title is being needlessly missed from discourse.  

I agree but this got started after someone saw their merch which is a shirt that says kill tory scum.

[Winslow Leach]

Oh who the fuck cares? They're Tories.