Football 19/20

[Hugh Jass]

30 minutes ago, priest17 said:

What an odd take.

What’s odd about it? Guardiola was brought in at considerable expense with a reputation as being the best conch in the world. He has been backed to ridiculous extremes in the market.

During this four years they had last season domestically where they were fantastic and broke all sorts of records and one other title. After both title wins they have put up lame defences of said titles - for all of Liverpool’s brilliance they only actually needed 82 points to win the league this year. They are no closer to success in Europe than they were when he took over.

They play some breathtaking football at times but they are still brittle both defensively and in terms of spirit - we’ve seen several occasions where they’ve reacted so badly to setback that they’ve conceded further goals. Tonight being yet another example. These issues have plagued City since Guardiola took over and he has shown no signs of being able to fix them.

Pep was supposed to be the appointment that moved City into the elite, that established them as the dominant force both domestically and on the continent. Four years on... are City that much better off than when they started?

[priest17]

10 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

What’s odd about it? Guardiola was brought in at considerable expense with a reputation as being the best conch in the world. He has been backed to ridiculous extremes in the market.

During this four years they had last season domestically where they were fantastic and broke all sorts of records and one other title. After both title wins they have put up lame defences of said titles - for all of Liverpool’s brilliance they only actually needed 82 points to win the league this year. They are no closer to success in Europe than they were when he took over.

They play some breathtaking football at times but they are still brittle both defensively and in terms of spirit - we’ve seen several occasions where they’ve reacted so badly to setback that they’ve conceded further goals. Tonight being yet another example. These issues have plagued City since Guardiola took over and he has shown no signs of being able to fix them.

Pep was supposed to be the appointment that moved City into the elite, that established them as the dominant force both domestically and on the continent. Four years on... are City that much better off than when they started?

City broke nearly every record under sun 2 years ago. The season that followed their title defense was... Winning it again with 98 points alongside the FA cup and the League cup. That is a somewhat domestic force I'd say. I guess they only got one of those this season, it's tough work doing 3 league wins in a row though. 280 points isn't anything to shake a stick at.

You're right about Europe, I imagine the board aren't massively happy about that. My experience with the fans is they're not massively bothered coz uefa can suck an egg. They don't look like winning it though, you're right which is mad. Still perplexed about tonight really.

All in all... Is that the bare minimum? I'd say he's done pretty well without maybe reaching the heights people hoped.

Four years on city are playing some of best football going and have changed football in England. There's still issues to fix but yeah I'd say they're better and provided some scenes along the way.

"But for all the money they've spent..." Yeah everyone's spending money. No one's touched that 17/18 season.

 

[Wooderson]

Everyone's spending money. 

 

 

[eFestivals]

Jesus wept.

So did the rest of the team.

And city had the advantage of a home atmosphere too.

[pink_triangle]

8 hours ago, priest17 said:

City broke nearly every record under sun 2 years ago. The season that followed their title defense was... Winning it again with 98 points alongside the FA cup and the League cup. That is a somewhat domestic force I'd say. I guess they only got one of those this season, it's tough work doing 3 league wins in a row though. 280 points isn't anything to shake a stick at.

You're right about Europe, I imagine the board aren't massively happy about that. My experience with the fans is they're not massively bothered coz uefa can suck an egg. They don't look like winning it though, you're right which is mad. Still perplexed about tonight really.

 

If they aren't bothered about Europe, how would they react if they won the champions league? If you think similar to the community shield, I accept they aren't bothered.

[Hugh Jass]

Let’s put it this way...

Four years ago City were winning domestic titles and cups, they were capable of blowing teams away with breathtaking football. They were also slightly suspect at the back and capable of being turned over. They always found a way to fuck it up in Europe.

What exactly has changed?

[Hugh Jass]

I’d go so far as to say Klopp has done a better job over the same time period.

[jyoung]

36 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

I’d go so far as to say Klopp has done a better job over the same time period.

With the squad he inherited to what he has now and a PL / CL trophy, yeah I'd agree.

Horses for courses though.

[Hugh Jass]

18 minutes ago, jyoung said:

With the squad he inherited to what he has now and a PL / CL trophy, yeah I'd agree.

Horses for courses though.

Success is relative to expectation, Sean Dyche for example has won nothing but few would argue he hasn’t been a success.

Guardiola on the other hand has not delivered against expectations I would say.

[zahidf]

Pep overthought things 

 

 

[thetime]

Pep just hasn't a good record in the champions league since Barcelona. He couldn't get Munich to the final either, for all his plaudits you cant get away from that poor record.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

I’d go so far as to say Klopp has done a better job over the same time period.

There can't be an argument on that can there? Pep took over a side already winning titles, Pep is quite good in picking clubs that are already made to win titles.

Klopp has totally turned liverpool around to win the champions league and win the title. 

No comparison.

[ThomThomDrum]

No winds blowing from the east? Wonder if high pressure is building up out that way! 😉

[eastynh]

Well after a shit week, that was a massive kick in the teeth.

Have to agree with what people have said regarding Pep in European football. Every year he has done it in the knock out stages, where he has come up with bizarre tactical changes and formations which we have never played before. Last nights was utterly bewildering and I still can't fathom it out. You can blame Sterlings miss or getting fucked over off VAR yet again, but ultimately last night was all on Pep. Players miss chances all the time. That was a bad miss, but ultinately Pep bottled it yet again last night and sent out the team with one arm tied behind its back.

Now regarding whether Peps time at City has been a disappointment. That is a resounding no. The football has been breath taking at times and a pleasure to watch. City have broken records that will probably never be broken, retained the title and he has become the first manager to ever win a domestic treble. Yet if I am going to be honest, If Mancini had been given the same players and investment, I reckon we would have won just as much and won the Champions League by now. It might not have been as pretty on the eye or broken as many records, but I think he would have won the champions league.

So it comes down to what do you want as a football fan? Is it all about winning trophies? For me its not, its about going to the match, having a beer, being entertained, the ups and the downs. Last night was absolutely gut wrenching and so frustrating. But, I would not have it any other way. City have been a joy to watch over the last few seasons. In a way its been typical City.

I mentioned on here previously that Houssem Aouar was a brilliant player. He proved it again last night. 

[eastynh]

10 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Jesus wept.

So did the rest of the team.

And city had the advantage of a home atmosphere too.

How are you suddenly an expert on atmospheres? 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, eastynh said:

 

Have to agree with what people have said regarding Pep in European football. Every year he has done it in the knock out stages, where he has come up with bizarre tactical changes and formations which we have never played before. 

I could understand him taking a tactical risk against equal or better teams. I don't really understand why he does it against significantly weaker opposition like Spurs, Monaco or Lyon.

[zahidf]

Messi wants out of barca now

 

[jyoung]

Where would Messi go? PSG? City? Can't see China or MLS being on the cards...

[jyoung]

Seen Inter mentioned a few times actually...

[Wooderson]

Good to see Kev winning players player. 

 

 

[zahidf]

31 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Where would Messi go? PSG? City? Can't see China or MLS being on the cards...

City wouldnt be massively out of the question

[Hugh Jass]

Not been a great weekend for the city of Manchester, has it?

[pink_triangle]

No goals from open play in 2 games is pretty bad for this attack I keep reading about how great they are.

[charlierc]

1 hour ago, jyoung said:

Seen Inter mentioned a few times actually...

Reports were going around a week ago he brought a flat in Milan near to Inter's city centre offices. Didn't even know that Inter would have that kind of money.

The only game of the post-lockdown Champions League I've watched in full was Barcelona v Bayern and blimey nora. In the opening stages, it was merely shaping up to be an exciting game but then Barcelona's defence collapsed like a house of cards in a light breeze. It was just staggering.

In terms of the debate earlier up, I don't think Guardiola is failure - he managed 2 incredible title wins with a ton of points and the first domestic treble. I think City fans will be happy they got that when they look back on this, but I do sympathise the Champions League is another kettle of fish, and that its odd he gets it wrong in the CL games a lot.

There was an article doing the rounds on the Guardian last night talking about how, in a lot of key games since that Inter semi in 2009/10, he's misjudged some big games. It is a frustrating meme for those of that persuasion.

[zahidf]