Football 19/20

[eFestivals]

17 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

Why isn't it? VAR needs work but it is a great thing to add to the game. Will help stop cheating and avoid titles being decided on refereeing mistakes 

nah, it'll just shift the claims of "titles being decided on refereeing mistakes" to incidents that don't use VAR (something that Man City fans have already pretty-much done for a recentish free-kick ['Fabinho 'dive'] that led to a Liverpool goal) or even (as has already happened in the WWC) titles being decided by VAR.  

And at the expense of the game's dynamic, which is a very big part of the game we've fallen in love with.

[pink_triangle]

7 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

I think Arsenal fans might disagree! Arsenal having better players doesn't mean they deserve decisions against them to even things out. That's an odd thing to even suggest. 

They didn't deserve it, but at the same time it's not a tragedy it happened. I have heard several from Arsenal discuss the game over the years and only one (I think Merson) even mentioned it. At the time the fans were moaning about Arsenal not taking their chances, not Wrexham getting the rub of the green on some decisions.

In general do you think VAR will mainly benefit the top, bottom, or make no difference. I feel on the basis the top teams have more possession, spend more time in the penalty box, it will benefit the top more than bottom. I will not support any rule changes I think benefit the top, I think they already have enough in their favour.

 

7 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

I

Sorting out the inequality between clubs finances is a much tougher task and there has been some implementations to help it already (admittedly they haven't been very successful). 

Sorting out the inequality is only tough because the rich clubs don't want to give up their unfair advantage. If their main priority was fairness it could be sorted quickly. As I said I think the big clubs will be the main beneficiaries of VAR.

 

7 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

 

People hate change and football fans/players are no different. Lots of people moaned about the pass back rule when it came in but once they got used to it they realised its importance. The same will happen with VAR. One thing VAR will substantially help stop is diving and I think we'll both agree this needs to be stamped out of the game. 

People saw the backpass have a positive impact on the game and accepted it. I don't see that trend with people becoming more positive about VAR as it beds in, i get the impression the opposite is happening.

[pink_triangle]

7 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

 

They have not worked well at all before VAR. Way too many penalties given by mistakes. Refs can still use common sense when using VAR, not sure why you think this disappears. 

 

I'm not a rugby league fan, but my friend who is said VAR resulted in an end to them using common sense and referring everything.

[pink_triangle]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nah, it'll just shift the claims of "titles being decided on refereeing mistakes" to incidents that don't use VAR (something that Man City fans have already pretty-much done for a recentish free-kick ['Fabinho 'dive'] that led to a Liverpool goal) or even (as has already happened in the WWC) titles being decided by VAR.

Which may result in VAR being used for more things and more slowing down of the game.

[CRW5252]

45 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nah, it'll just shift the claims of "titles being decided on refereeing mistakes" to incidents that don't use VAR (something that Man City fans have already pretty-much done for a recentish free-kick ['Fabinho 'dive'] that led to a Liverpool goal) or even (as has already happened in the WWC) titles being decided by VAR.  

And at the expense of the game's dynamic, which is a very big part of the game we've fallen in love with.

Titles decided by VAR is fine if it's the right decision. 

VAR will become quicker over time and I think people will get used to it. I agree it's too slow at the moment. 

[CRW5252]

42 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They didn't deserve it, but at the same time it's not a tragedy it happened. I have heard several from Arsenal discuss the game over the years and only one (I think Merson) even mentioned it. At the time the fans were moaning about Arsenal not taking their chances, not Wrexham getting the rub of the green on some decisions.

In general do you think VAR will mainly benefit the top, bottom, or make no difference. I feel on the basis the top teams have more possession, spend more time in the penalty box, it will benefit the top more than bottom. I will not support any rule changes I think benefit the top, I think they already have enough in their favour.

I think it will promote the correct decisions being made which is most important in my opinion. 

44 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Sorting out the inequality is only tough because the rich clubs don't want to give up their unfair advantage. If their main priority was fairness it could be sorted quickly. 

I agree with this but you have to be realistic and realise the owners of football clubs (big or small) are never going to want to reduce the value of their assets. 

This is issue is completely seperate from VAR though. 

48 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

People saw the backpass have a positive impact on the game and accepted it. I don't see that trend with people becoming more positive about VAR as it beds in, i get the impression the opposite is happening.

I think people will start to get used it soon. We haven't even seen it in the prem yet. 

50 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I'm not a rugby league fan, but my friend who is said VAR resulted in an end to them using common sense and referring everything.

I haven't seen that happen with VAR personally

[eFestivals]

31 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

Titles decided by VAR is fine if it's the right decision. 

not according to IFAB and FIFA who've just changed the rules on the use of VAR half-way thru the WWC.

 

Quote

VAR will become quicker over time and I think people will get used to it. I agree it's too slow at the moment. 

it'll never be that quick because so much is subjective decisions.

Edited June 23, 2019 by eFestivals

[CRW5252]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

not according to IFAB and FIFA who've just changed the rules on the use of VAR half-way thru the WWC.

 

it'll never be that quick because so much is subjective decisions.

That was for penalty shootouts. There hadn't been any shootouts when they announced that so not really made a difference either way. 

Regardless VAR isn't perfect and I haven't claimed it to be. People just need some patience whilst they get it right. 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

Regardless VAR isn't perfect and I haven't claimed it to be. People just need some patience whilst they get it right. 

I don't believe they can get it right, because it changes football into something it's never been - a stop/start game.

[WS_Jack_III]

Newcastle will be relegated this season. 

[pink_triangle]

9 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

 

I agree with this but you have to be realistic and realise the owners of football clubs (big or small) are never going to want to reduce the value of their assets. 

This is issue is completely seperate from VAR though. 

 

It's a separate issue, but in terms of fairness it's kind of linked. In a premiership with extreme unfairness due to resources. I can accept the smaller teams getting the odd rub of the green. My prediction is that the main beneficiaries of VAR in the premiership will be Man City. I will not support any move that favours the big teams who already have huge advantages.

[eastynh]

City lost out in the champions league due to VAR. Most surreal experience I have ever had in a football ground.

Yet I am still pro VAR. It has been a long time in coming and it is needed. What needs adressing is how they implement it. It needs to go up on the big screens at the grounds and Mic up the refs. People need to know what is going on.

[thetime]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

My prediction is that the main beneficiaries of VAR in the premiership will be Man City. I will not support any move that favours the big teams who already have huge advantages.

I would of thought getting the correct decisions, whether it favours the big sides shouldn't be an issue.

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, thetime said:

I would of thought getting the correct decisions, whether it favours the big sides shouldn't be an issue.

VAR slows the game down and in my view will change the way that football is played in a negative way.

If our main focus is how to make football more fair, as I have said I would look at more significant examples of unfairness, rather than the odd decision which I think overall has a fairly minor impact. It's not worth making the game worse, for what I consider a relatively minor issue.

[pink_triangle]

21 minutes ago, eastynh said:

City lost out in the champions league due to VAR. Most surreal experience I have ever had in a football ground.

Yet I am still pro VAR. It has been a long time in coming and it is needed. What needs adressing is how they implement it. It needs to go up on the big screens at the grounds and Mic up the refs. People need to know what is going on.

I didn't say City would never get a VAR decision against them. More that overall I suspect the teams who have the most possession and attack the most (generally the richest) will be the main beneficiaries.

[eastynh]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I didn't say City would never get a VAR decision against them. More that overall I suspect the teams who have the most possession and attack the most (generally the richest) will be the main beneficiaries.

I was just pointing out that even though my team has been on the receiving end of a VAR decision, I am still in favour of it being used.

City went out because VAR got the decision correct. 

If the correct decision is made by VAR then that has to be for the good of the game ?‍♂️

[pink_triangle]

17 minutes ago, eastynh said:

I was just pointing out that even though my team has been on the receiving end of a VAR decision, I am still in favour of it being used.

City went out because VAR got the decision correct. 

If the correct decision is made by VAR then that has to be for the good of the game ?‍♂️

I honestly believe in a parallel universe where every decision would have been correct, I would have enjoyed football no more than the imperfect game we have at present.

My main problem with VAR is slowing the game down and the consequences which I think push the balance too much in favour of attack compared to defence.

However as I said if fairness is our main focus. Refereeing decisions would not be my priority.

[eastynh]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I honestly believe in a parallel universe where every decision would have been correct, I would have enjoyed football no more than the imperfect game we have at present.

My main problem with VAR is slowing the game down and the consequences which I think push the balance too much in favour of attack compared to defence.

However as I said if fairness is our main focus. Refereeing decisions would not be my priority.

Unfortunately the established elite do not want fair, they want the cards stacked in their favour.

VAR is a step in the right direction.

[pink_triangle]

41 minutes ago, eastynh said:

Unfortunately the established elite do not want fair, they want the cards stacked in their favour.

VAR is a step in the right direction.

My instinct is that VAR will stack the cards further I'm their favour, which is one (but not the main reason) reason I'm against it. 

One of my favourite things about football is a good giant killing. My instinct is that VAR will make this less and not more likely. I really am not bothered about getting every decision correct.

If a way can be found that won't slow the game, won't push the balance too much in favour of attack than defence and can convince me that the main beneficiaries won't be the big teams, I'm open to changing my mind.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, eastynh said:

Unfortunately the established elite do not want fair, they want the cards stacked in their favour.

VAR is a step in the right direction.

hmmm. This is your view when sitting at the top.

When City were in the shit, here's betting you were praying for lucky breaks to get them out the shit.  

And you seem less bothered about "cards stacked in your favour" with FFP and clearly-fake sponsorship deals.

Edited June 24, 2019 by eFestivals

[Hugh Jass]

Had VAR been in place we would most likely have made the Play-Off final.

Not that I'm still bitter about this.

[eastynh]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

hmmm. This is your view when sitting at the top.

When City were in the shit, here's betting you were praying for lucky breaks to get them out the shit.  

And you seem less bothered about "cards stacked in your favour" with FFP and clearly-fake sponsorship deals.

Stop believing the shit you read in the paper. You have no idea what so ever regarding Citys finances

I am all for balance in football. Limits on spending and wages. But limits that are the same for everyone and increase competition. The established elite do not want that. They want limits that benefit them and allow them to spend more than anyone else, therefore keep them at the top of the tree. 

Just because a team has a lot of so called fans in Singapore, Malaysia, Norway or Ireland should not give you a divine right to constantly be at the top of the tree. Either make the rules fair for everyone with a spending or salary cap,  or businesses should be run how they see fit. 

[eastynh]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

My instinct is that VAR will stack the cards further I'm their favour, which is one (but not the main reason) reason I'm against it. 

One of my favourite things about football is a good giant killing. My instinct is that VAR will make this less and not more likely. I really am not bothered about getting every decision correct.

If a way can be found that won't slow the game, won't push the balance too much in favour of attack than defence and can convince me that the main beneficiaries won't be the big teams, I'm open to changing my mind.

Atacking football should always be favoured over parked busses.

[Wooderson]

I'm visiting the Slave Museum today easty.

[eastynh]

2 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

I'm visiting the Slave Museum today easty.

Enjoy my friend. Not the nicest ground or area but its still home for you.

You going on a tour?