Sziget 2020

[clasher]

6 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

there should be an effort to address the issue even if it means making decisions that are slightly at odds with how they'd usually book a festival, without having resort to people who aren't good enough to be there for the sake of it. 

Such as booking one act in favour of another solely based on gender? 

Sounds an awful lot like sexsim to me... 

[king_oxymoron]

Redressing an imbalance is not the same thing. 

[lukatej]

On 2/19/2020 at 7:03 PM, dolevshelly said:

i was at his live band shows (bang bang bang tour) and it was great!

if its a band show we're gonna get a great show. if its a dj set idk whats gonna happen

I asked Sziget and they replied that......

There is going to be.....

Mark Ronson DJ Set.... 😞

So probably late night A38 

[clasher]

12 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

Redressing an imbalance is not the same thing. 

Care to elaborate? 

[Yelo, the Parmiggiana]

15 minutes ago, lukatej said:

I asked Sziget and they replied that......

There is going to be.....

Mark Ronson DJ Set.... 😞

So probably late night A38 

Bleah

I can see him opening for an headliner on the Main Stage anyway: he actually works well on the daylight and... embarassing, yeah

[king_oxymoron]

Sure, in my opinion if you were talking about this from a clean slate and the organisers went FUCK MEN, GET WOMEN, then sure, call that sexism. 

But when it is addressing an issue (and there IS a problem with 'employment' opportunities for women versus men in pretty much every industry not just music) in this case giving women a leg up in order to find a solution to the problem and create a better balance, that isn't sexism. That's correcting a previous inequality.

 

ANYWAY my point wasn't to come here today to argue for women's rights! I am looking forward to the next announcement whoever is in it, i would just like to see some female names because above all else variety is the spice of life! 

[lukatej]

Just now, Yelo, the Parmiggiana said:

Bleah

I can see him opening for an headliner on the Main Stage anyway: he actually works well on the daylight and... embarassing, yeah

No chance for him on subheadlining set. I mean, there is plenty of confirmed subheadliners...

The rest of the main stage will be Hungarian bands anyway 😃😃

[swelsbyuk]

I appreciate people striving for 50/50 and I think we will get there over time but, at the moment, I'd say Sziget has gone for quality over quantity and, personally, I think some of the most exciting acts on the bill are female:

FKA Twigs

Sevdaliza

Little Simz

And, the pop of Dua Lipa, Sigrid and Mabel.

There's definitely a shortage on the bill but that's because there's a shortage of female artists in general.

EDIT: Whoops, almost forgot Black Honey - seen them a couple of times and well worth a watch.

Edited February 24, 2020 by swelsbyuk

[king_oxymoron]

I would definitely prefer to see him in the A38 if it's DJ Set 

[king_oxymoron]

@swelsbyuk I appreciate the recommendations! 

[The Martini Police]

4 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

 

But when it is addressing an issue (and there IS a problem with 'employment' opportunities for women versus men in pretty much every industry not just music) in this case giving women a leg up in order to find a solution to the problem and create a better balance, that isn't sexism. That's correcting a previous inequality.

What you're describing is reverse sexism. Which is still a form of sexism.

[thetime]

22 minutes ago, The Martini Police said:

What you're describing is reverse sexism. Which is still a form of sexism.

Never had so many down votes, when I mentioned this in the reading forum. 😂

Edited February 24, 2020 by thetime

[Isaacw77]

People think we are getting the next headliners soon?

[Akujin sama]

12 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

Sure, in my opinion if you were talking about this from a clean slate and the organisers went FUCK MEN, GET WOMEN, then sure, call that sexism. 

But when it is addressing an issue (and there IS a problem with 'employment' opportunities for women versus men in pretty much every industry not just music) in this case giving women a leg up in order to find a solution to the problem and create a better balance, that isn't sexism. That's correcting a previous inequality.

 

ANYWAY my point wasn't to come here today to argue for women's rights! I am looking forward to the next announcement whoever is in it, i would just like to see some female names because above all else variety is the spice of life! 

 

OK, I don't want to take apart every one of your sentences because I can understand your sentiment. But just let me address this and then move on. 

This approach is exactly the one that would tell woman "you are not good enough", because "we have to give you a leg up" so that you can be equal. 

When in fact I look at most sold albums of 2019, and I see 4 out of top 5 being female... 

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/top-billboard-200-albums

Btw I would have loved to see Billie on the Line up, it's a shame she won't be around in August. I'm sure that Sziget organisers also would have loved to get her.

[clasher]

5 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

But when it is addressing an issue (and there IS a problem with 'employment' opportunities for women versus men in pretty much every industry not just music) in this case giving women a leg up in order to find a solution to the problem and create a better balance, that isn't sexism. That's correcting a previous inequality.

That's still the very definition of sexism.

I won't even get into the employment argument. 

[king_oxymoron]

3 minutes ago, Akujin sama said:

 

OK, I don't want to take apart every one of your sentences because I can understand your sentiment. But just let me address this and then move on. 

This approach is exactly the one that would tell woman "you are not good enough", because "we have to give you a leg up" so that you can be equal. 

When in fact I look at most sold albums of 2019, and I see 4 out of top 5 being female... 

https://www.billboard.com/charts/year-end/top-billboard-200-albums

Btw I would have loved to see Billie on the Line up, it's a shame she won't be around in August. I'm sure that Sziget organisers also would have loved to get her.

My take on this is a bit like Dave's in 'Black' - that the female artists can be twice as good (and I agree about the solidity of female albums last year) and yet still have to work twice as hard. And I think they probably know as women even if they are the best in the game, they might not be treated as such? 

maybe 'give a leg up' was the wrong terminology because you're right on merit they don't need it. But do festivals still have more work to do, absolutely,

[king_oxymoron]

I agree I'm sure they did want Billie, and moving the conversation onwards, I too would have really liked to see her, she played Glastonbury last year and I didn't think I was bothered, but now I really wish I'd gone! 

[FestivalJamie]

1 hour ago, thetime said:

Never had so many down votes, when I mentioned this in the reading forum. 😂

The difference is Sziget actively promote diversity, and every year have a strong line up of female artists; this year including dua lipa, FKA twigs, Sigrid & black honey, showcasing different styles of music which well-represent their festival. On the other hand, this year at reading, the highest female artist on the line up is Mabel (2nd from the bottom on the main stage), haven't had a female headliner in 6 years now and only 8% of their artists this year have female members. In my opinion that is shocking as festival republic claim to be addressing gender imbalance in music.

There is minimal diversity at Reading whereas Sziget represents diversity and equality and acceptance as a whole event (incorporating stages such as the magic mirror), and looking back at previous years they've always booked strong female artists (Florence, dua, lana, Sia, Rhianna, pink) who represent their event well and put on a good live show.

It's not necessarily having a 50/50 split between male and female bookings, because that is just booking due to gender rather than talent, however it is about trying to create an overall diverse line up with talented artists of different race, gender, sexuality etc. (Years & Years were an awesome representation of diversity last year, same for Tove Lo).

I feel sziget does this perfectly as a festival and I would say that sziget have booked a strong set of artists this year who can represent their image for diversity well. Once we've had stages such as magic mirror added in as well as the guest speakers on the main stage, then their festival really will emulate diversity and talent once again this year.

For me this year, Reading has no diversity throughout the line up this year, and talent is barely there too(there's only a few names which jump out at me as being a strong booking this year). It's something sziget does far better than Reading has ever done, and that's why the issue of imbalance lies far bigger at Reading than it does at Sziget.

Edited February 24, 2020 by FestivalJamie

[king_oxymoron]

Jamie, I think that's an excellent post, and I don't disagree, I think the two festivals are worlds apart and I'm sorry if it read like I was saying Sziget was doing the bare minimum, I don't think that.

i guess I just meant that looking at the line up currently from Calvin down as far as Twigs, she's only one of two female names (I think) at the very top of the bill. Really all I meant is that it would be really great to see a couple more in this weeks announcement, that's all. 

You are quite right there are lots of talented females in the undercard and I'm definitely guilty of ignoring what will happen away from the main stages. 

[lukatej]

Mad Cool announcing big name on Thursday.

So maybe we will have also announcement on Thursday?

[FestivalJamie]

19 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

i guess I just meant that looking at the line up currently from Calvin down as far as Twigs, she's only one of two female names (I think) at the very top of the bill. Really all I meant is that it would be really great to see a couple more in this weeks announcement, that's all. 

You are quite right there are lots of talented females in the undercard and I'm definitely guilty of ignoring what will happen away from the main stages. 

I completely agree, there aren't many females this year between the headliners and down to FKA twigs, but last year we only had Tove Lo, Jain & Florence as female headliners/sub headliners, yet I still feel the festival as a whole created such a strong positive message that everyone is included and feels accepted. Last year having Years & Years as a subheadliner was awesome as they really convey that message across in their performance that sziget are trying to achieve. Even Macklemore from a diversity respect was an excellent subheadliner, as he always makes sure to sing 'same love' and always gives a speech about it doesn't matter who you are or what you believe in, everyone is accepted.

That's why I find imagine dragons such moving performances, because even though in terms of the make up of their band isn't particularly diverse, their performance is, as they always sing "its time" and give a speech about how everyone should be accepted no matter for who you are or how you feel. So from my perspective maybe it's more about booking those artists who can emulate that sense of diversity in their performance, even if the structure of the line up isn't particularly diverse itself.

We definitely have a diverse line up at sziget this year and there will be a lot of talented female artists lower down (Jade bird is lower down on the line up and she's excellent), and there's so many stages at sziget that the line up is always going to be relatively balanced and diverse even if the main names don't seem like there's been too much effort to create that sense of balance- at the end of the day they are going to book the names who are going to sell the most tickets, however that doesn't detract from the overall positive message sziget try to convey as a festival.

It's an issue that is talked about a lot and one I'm actually quite passionate about; to say that female artists, or similarly male artists, haven't been booked because they "aren't good enough", is no longer an acceptable argument because we have so many talented artists out there now, big in popularity and small in popularity, that creating a diverse line up is always going to be possible and should be aimed for regardless if the original artist you set out to book is unable to be booked for whatever reason.

[clasher]

32 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

i guess I just meant that looking at the line up currently from Calvin down as far as Twigs, she's only one of two female names (I think) at the very top of the bill. Really all I meant is that it would be really great to see a couple more in this weeks announcement, that's all.

Why though? 

If you said "I really wish they announced Rihanna and Beyonce" I'd understand. You like them, you want them on the lineup. If you said "I really wish more shoegaze bands were announced" I'd understand. 

But this, this I can't possibly comprehend. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me you'd like to see more female acts announced just for the sake of diversity. What if they announced female acts that in your opinion suck? Or is "female music" now a genre (one thay you like)? Is the gender structure of a lineup more important to you than quality or are female acts by default better than male ones? 

[thetime]

15 minutes ago, clasher said:

Why though? 

If you said "I really wish they announced Rihanna and Beyonce" I'd understand. You like them, you want them on the lineup. If you said "I really wish more shoegaze bands were announced" I'd understand. 

But this, this I can't possibly comprehend. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me you'd like to see more female acts announced just for the sake of diversity. What if they announced female acts that in your opinion suck? Or is "female music" now a genre (one thay you like)? Is the gender structure of a lineup more important to you than quality or are female acts by default better than male ones? 

The average person who buys a ticket looks at the gender ratio nowadays. 

Crazy times. 

[king_oxymoron]

Typically my tastes are more female leaning, if that helps explain.

but I would still think if they announced a big female artist I didn't like, that they'd done a good thing. I'm sorry if you don't agree with that.

Great bands or artists are important to me. Diversity is important to me. It's not one or the other. It's both 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[thetime]

20 minutes ago, king_oxymoron said:

Typically my tastes are more female leaning

 

Mine as well, that doesn't mean I'm in favour of choosing acts just because they are female.