There has to be a better way to allocate tickets

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

22 minutes ago, Ragingbunion93 said:

What if there was a preliminary page before the sale that allowed you to enter your registration details before being redirected into the ticket queue? Surely that would weed out those who are serious from the mindless drones taking up valuable bandwidth? My only concern is that it may benefit larger groups, who would be able to book more tickets in a shorter amount of time. 

Isn’t that exactly what you do now but in reverse? Holding page, enter regents details.. enter reg details, holding page? I’m always intrigued when people say join a ‘queue’ as well. What exactly do you mean by queue? Just in fact a free for all which isn’t a queue at all and is exactly how the current system works?

[uscore]

11 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

But she can drive though? She passed her test? She may not be Lewis Hamilton, but she can actually operate a car? You don’t need to be a computer programmer to buy Glastonbury tickets, you need to know how to turn a computer on and find a web address. Computers are household items, like TVs and microwaves, realistically how many people that want Glastonbury tickets (that aren’t actually disabled and have other means to apply for tickets anyway) are that computer illiterate it’s beyond them?

sure, anyone can press refresh. But how many people have multiple devices or virtual machines and that bit of extra know how that is getting them further than average?  For all the anecdotal reports of "I had a single pc with a single browser" it stands to reason that the tech savy will have a better chance.

I'm not even saying that I personally disagree with the current system (like many here it benefits me well).  All I'm saying is that I can imagine the festival considering all the ways it can to level the playing field (hence the rather desperate plea of "please only use one device" we had days before the sales, which I reckon most people ignored).  If everyone continues to ignore the festival's plea, then they might be further motivated to do something about it.

A 100% ballot system is obviously a terrible idea, but some of the knee jerk reactions here to any suggestion of changing the current system smacks of people just wanting to keep their advantages.  That's why it leads some people to start talking about "deserving attendees" vs undeserving ones.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of rewarding determination; that's why the current system has worked well so far. But now people are becoming more skilled than others in getting tickets, that'll only get more entrenched over years.  And whilst I kinda hope that's how it continues, so that I can keep going,  it's not absurd to imagine the festival coming up with tweaks to combat it.

 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 minutes ago, uscore said:

sure, anyone can press refresh. But how many people have multiple devices or virtual machines and that bit of extra know how that is getting them further than average?  For all the anecdotal reports of "I had a single pc with a single browser" it stands to reason that the tech savy will have a better chance.

I'm not even saying that I personally disagree with the current system (like many here it benefits me well).  All I'm saying is that I can imagine the festival considering all the ways it can to level the playing field (hence the rather desperate plea of "please only use one device" we had days before the sales, which I reckon most people ignored).  If everyone continues to ignore the festival's plea, then they might be further motivated to do something about it.

A 100% ballot system is obviously a terrible idea, but some of the knee jerk reactions here to any suggestion of changing the current system smacks of people just wanting to keep their advantages.  That's why it leads some people to start talking about "deserving attendees" vs undeserving ones.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of rewarding determination; that's why the current system has worked well so far. But now people are becoming more skilled than others in getting tickets, that'll only get more entrenched over years.  And whilst I kinda hope that's how it continues, so that I can keep going,  it's not absurd to imagine the festival coming up with tweaks to combat it.

 

I just don’t get the link between being tech savvy and having multiple devices, surely it’s just common sense? The current system is effectively a lottery and if you can’t work out that extra tickets in a lottery give you a better chance, is it because you’re not tech savvy, or it because you just lack common sense.

For example you don’t need to be tech savvy to ask all your friends and family to try in your behalf as well. Doing that will undoubtedly increase your chances, that’s just basic. It’s got nothing to do with being tech savvy. 

[uscore]

1 minute ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I just don’t get the link between being tech savvy and having multiple devices, surely it’s just common sense? The current system is effectively a lottery and if you can’t work out that extra tickets in a lottery give you a better chance, is it because you’re not tech savvy, or it because you just lack common sense.

For example you don’t need to be tech savvy to ask all your friends and family to try in your behalf as well. Doing that will undoubtedly increase your chances, that’s just basic. It’s got nothing to do with being tech savvy. 

it's not just tech savy, it's also having more money to own devices.  And I logged into my work pc remotely, I don't think many people do that.

And my point was clearly not just tech savvy,  but glastonbury-ticket buying savvy too.  We all know the system inside out now.  Do newcomers?  Does everyone have lots of friends and family?

Again, this isn't my perspective but what the festival will be thinking, which seemed borne out in some of the comments Emily made the other night, and the festival's plea to only use one device.

[eFestivals]

29 minutes ago, uscore said:

sure, anyone can press refresh. But how many people have multiple devices or virtual machines and that bit of extra know how that is getting them further than average?  For all the anecdotal reports of "I had a single pc with a single browser" it stands to reason that the tech savy will have a better chance.

lots of people have multiple devices, and it doesn't take a tech-savvy genius to realise that extra devices equals extra chances.

[Havors]

15 hours ago, DeanoL said:

You're missing my point. 4 people are not always trying for four tickets.

Under the current system: if you have a group of 4 people and one of them is trying for tickets, you have a quarter of the chance of a group of 4 people where they are all trying for a ticket. This is a hugely common situation. A lot of groups/people are not that organised and leave the ticket buying to a single person or two people. Hell, I've been in groups before where it turns out that one person slept in or forgot. It happens. The current system is designed to reward that: does everyone in your group want to go so much that they ensure they're able to try for tickets? Congrats, you up your chances.

Under your system, only one person has to try for each group. Only one person can try for each group. So those groups where half of them don't bother? They've got the same odds as a group where everyone would try if they could. 

You're basing your assumptions on the idea that the current system always sees everyone in the group trying for a ticket. That's really not the case. Tickets are a finite resource. For every other person that gets a ticket, your chance of getting a ticket goes down. So yes, if you increase the chances for groups where only one person in four is trying for a ticket, you decrease the chances for groups where all four people are trying. I can do a worked example if you want?

That part of my assumption is completely correct and it's just maths - you can't argue with that. What I *am* assuming is that the current system working this way is intended. That the festival want to reward groups where everyone is trying over groups where they're not. I don't know for certain that's the case, but suspect it is.

(If you're still struggling to understand, try to picture how your system would work if it was by registration, so everyone in the group could try, but with only one device per registration number. How would that change it?)

No you are missing my point... it was my suggestion we were talking about. its completely irrelevant if at the moment you have a group of 4 were 3 of them cant be arsed... who cares? Like I said you are just straw manning me. 

We are talking about improving the system and giving everyone a fair chance without technical issues (as many). 

There is no reward for groups trying when it is causing people being kicked from payment pages and everything else. We always have about 12 people trying and we get kicked out quite often... where is our "reward"? Just talking nonsense.  It is complete pot luck.... especially with the way load balancers work. 

So lets just say you don't like my idea for your own strange reasons and leave it at that. 

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, uscore said:

And my point was clearly not just tech savvy,  but glastonbury-ticket buying savvy too.  We all know the system inside out now.  Do newcomers?

no matter what the system, there'll always be an advantage from knowing how the system works (tho depending on the system that advantage might be very marginal).

And us here took the time to learn a little about it to try and game it, and people will always try to game any system.

And no one is keeping the info we 'know' - which has marginal advantage from how tickets work out - hidden from anyone new who might want to know it. In fact people go out of their way to pass on that knowledge.

[Havors]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

lots of people have multiple devices, and it doesn't take a tech-savvy genius to realise that extra devices equals extra chances.

Indeed...... As it stands that is 100% correct. The amount of devices being used is a serious issue in my opinion. 

With the suggestion I made of pre-registering for ticket day and your reg number only being allowed to be used once like the ballot they have just done, means you don't need multiple devices to have just as much chance... as its 1 person trying against for example 500k devices instead of 4 people trying against 2 million devices. Gives people pretty equal chance and alleviates a lot of the stress on the servers.

But lets be honest we are pissing in the wind.... nothing is about to change. The tickets sell out and see tickets do manage to cope even if it does screw a lot of people over at key times (payment page). 

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Havors said:

your reg number only being allowed to be used once

the problem with that is that it's easy to have multiple reg numbers.

Edited October 18, 2019 by eFestivals

[BigChief]

Ballot doesn’t work, unless you have to submit your group and then find out if you get them. If people want links to be sent out to buy 6, then you’d get people selling them etc.

Its shit, I’ve not managed to get a ticket since 2016, but it’s just the luck of the draw. If I was getting through at 9.02 every year, I wouldn’t see what the problem was. People are getting tickets, so that’s that, it’s not like the site is crashing and the tickets can’t be sold.

[Havors]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the problem with that is that it's easy to have multiple reg numbers.

At the moment yes. I covered this in some previous posts about authenticating registrations so you can only have one... obviously it would mean see tickets/glasto actually having to do some work but it is quite possible. Whether they would or not is the problem. As I say... think they don't care that much when it comes down to it... system they have "copes" and they sell out, that's all that matters to them really. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

By about ten past nine I gave up on multiple devices and concentrated on a pc refreshing every five secs and a 4g phone . Got through at 9 18 and secured tickets. Had a look back at past successful purchases and whether it’s a coincidence or not over the past 5 festivals I’ve always got tickets around twenty past nine. Probably folk giving up or more spaces as others get their tickets.  This year was bad and actually didn’t get the confirmation page, just got to the buytickets. Thought I had lost out but the golden e mail arrived half an hour after sold out 

[DeanoL]

19 minutes ago, Havors said:

No you are missing my point... it was my suggestion we were talking about. its completely irrelevant if at the moment you have a group of 4 were 3 of them cant be arsed... who cares? Like I said you are just straw manning me. 

But people do have groups of 4 where 3 of them can't be arsed! You can't just say it doesn't matter because you weren't talking about those. That group is competing with you for tickets! If you increase their odds, you decrease your own.

Quote

 

We are talking about improving the system and giving everyone a fair chance without technical issues (as many). 

There is no reward for groups trying when it is causing people being kicked from payment pages and everything else. We always have about 12 people trying and we get kicked out quite often... where is our "reward"? Just talking nonsense. 

 

Your reward is: you had a higher chance of getting tickets. That doesn't mean it's certain. It's like rolling a dice. If one person is trying for you whole group, you have to roll a six first time to get a ticket. If all 6 of you are trying, then just one of you has to roll a six. You're much more likely to roll a six. But there's no guarantee. The rest is all down to chance. And if the die wobbles on the edge between the 5 and the 6 then tips on to the 5, it might feel annoying but it's really no better or worse. 

Quote

 It is complete pot luck.... especially with the way load balancers work. 

Yes absolutely. And the more people you have trying, the more draws from the pot you get.

[DeanoL]

28 minutes ago, Havors said:

The tickets sell out and see tickets do manage to cope even if it does screw a lot of people over at key times (payment page). 

That's just a mindset thing though. I get that it can feel annoying because it feels like you were "close" but that's not real. Everyone has an equal chance at getting into the reg screen, everyone has an equal chance of getting chucked out before payment, everyone has an equal chance of getting chucked out after entering payment details. No-one is being screwed over. Had all those transactions been successful, the sale would have finished five minutes earlier and anyone who got tickets in the last five minutes now wouldn't have tickets instead. 

The only thing that actually matters is if you got tickets or not.

Getting through to the payment page and getting kicked out leaves you no better and no worse off than those who never had a sniff of the registration page.

[Havors]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But people do have groups of 4 where 3 of them can't be arsed! You can't just say it doesn't matter because you weren't talking about those. That group is competing with you for tickets! If you increase their odds, you decrease your own.

Your reward is: you had a higher chance of getting tickets. That doesn't mean it's certain. It's like rolling a dice. If one person is trying for you whole group, you have to roll a six first time to get a ticket. If all 6 of you are trying, then just one of you has to roll a six. You're much more likely to roll a six. But there's no guarantee. The rest is all down to chance. And if the die wobbles on the edge between the 5 and the 6 then tips on to the 5, it might feel annoying but it's really no better or worse. 

Yes absolutely. And the more people you have trying, the more draws from the pot you get.

You don't decrease your odds... your odds stay the same.... the other peoples odds improve and everyone has (in theory) an equal chance. 

... as I said my whole suggestion was about making it fairer and less stressful technically. You are trying to argue with me about whether its fair that a group of lazy people should have less chance than less lazy people.... that is irrelevant and not my argument. You are straw manning me. 

Whether you would prefer it the way it is now or not is your own choice. 

[Havors]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

That's just a mindset thing though. I get that it can feel annoying because it feels like you were "close" but that's not real. Everyone has an equal chance at getting into the reg screen, everyone has an equal chance of getting chucked out before payment, everyone has an equal chance of getting chucked out after entering payment details. No-one is being screwed over. Had all those transactions been successful, the sale would have finished five minutes earlier and anyone who got tickets in the last five minutes now wouldn't have tickets instead. 

The only thing that actually matters is if you got tickets or not.

Getting through to the payment page and getting kicked out leaves you no better and no worse off than those who never had a sniff of the registration page.

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, Havors said:

You don't decrease your odds... your odds stay the same.... the other peoples odds improve and everyone has (in theory) an equal chance. 

That's not how odds work. There's a limited pool of tickets. If other peoples odds improve, yours decrease. I don't know how else to explain that?

Quote

... as I said my whole suggestion was about making it fairer and less stressful technically. You are trying to argue with me about whether its fair that a group of lazy people should have less chance than less lazy people.... that is irrelevant and not my argument. You are straw manning me. 

I'm saying that your system would change the distribution of tickets. You're denying that. You literally said:

Quote

There is no change to ticket distribution at all. 

But there is. And you're even admitting now that you want to make it "fairer" when before it was just about eliminating the technical problems.

People who don't have all their group trying would have better odds under your system. I think that's a bad thing. You refuse to engage on whether you thing it's a good or bad thing or not. Which is fine. But you have to acknowledge that your proposed system does make that change. That might not be intentional, just a side effect. But side effects matter. Indeed, I proposed how to modify your system to keep the same distribution as before and you weren't interested either. So it does feel like it's an intentional change. Which again, is fine. What's frustrating is you won't just acknowledge that!

I'm not straw-manning you. I'm just working through the consequences of your system. It's like if someone goes "wouldn't traffic lights look nicer if they were red and blue rather than red and green" and I went "yeah maybe, but loads of people have red/blue colour blindness so it'd be really confusing for them and probably cause more accidents". And their reply is "well now you're strawmanning me. I just said it would look nicer! Accidents are irrelevant!"

[DeanoL]

10 minutes ago, Havors said:

Got to complicated for you did it? Don't worry, I still love you. I'm sure other people do too.

[stuie]

7 hours ago, Rubber Soldier said:

How is this thread still going? The system is fine and as fair as it possibly can be. 

I predict that once the 50th is out of the way and we've had a couple of rainy muddy years, demand will drop off and this will all be less important.

I have the impression that Glastonbury isn't attracting as much young blood as it needs to in order to stay as popular and relevant as it currently is.  For example, amongst younger festival goers who've done both, Boomtown wins in the Glasto v Boomtown discussion and the Glasto crowd is generally much older.

 

 

 

 

[incident]

50 minutes ago, Havors said:

Thing is, you're the one missing the point in spectacular fashion.. I'd suggest going back and re-reading his posts.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 hours ago, uscore said:

it's not just tech savy, it's also having more money to own devices.  And I logged into my work pc remotely, I don't think many people do that.

And my point was clearly not just tech savvy,  but glastonbury-ticket buying savvy too.  We all know the system inside out now.  Do newcomers?  Does everyone have lots of friends and family?

Again, this isn't my perspective but what the festival will be thinking, which seemed borne out in some of the comments Emily made the other night, and the festival's plea to only use one device.

But what is preventing people from knowing the system inside out? Effort = reward. Just because somebody is new to buying Glastonbury tickets there is no barrier to them doing a simple google search as a minimum to help improve their chances. If they don’t is it because of the system, or that they’re new, or they just didn’t feel the potential reward was worth the effort of even looking into it in more detail?

[David Gray (90+2)]

4 hours ago, uscore said:

And my point was clearly not just tech savvy,  but glastonbury-ticket buying savvy too.  We all know the system inside out now.  Do newcomers?

Newcomer here. Yes, I do.

It took about 10 minutes of talking to people who'd previously got tickets, and another 10 minutes of internet research (including finding this forum).

I joined a group of six and got tickets. I am 1 for 1 on Glastonbury T-Day.

It is not alienating in the slightest if you're not a complete fucking idiot.

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, David Gray (90+2) said:

It is not alienating in the slightest if you're not a complete fucking idiot.

remember, 50% of the population are below average intelligence. 

Most people, tho, believe themselves to be in the top half  

[uscore]

1 hour ago, David Gray (90+2) said:

Newcomer here. Yes, I do.

It took about 10 minutes of talking to people who'd previously got tickets, and another 10 minutes of internet research (including finding this forum).

I joined a group of six and got tickets. I am 1 for 1 on Glastonbury T-Day.

It is not alienating in the slightest if you're not a complete fucking idiot.

 

one person's experience is not a big enough sample to extrapolate major conclusions from.

Also, lots of people are idiots. I'd say roughly 52%, in fact.

[Ayrshire Chris]

It’s easy to say now that I’ve got tickets but I reckon the current system is far better than a ballot. Currently you’ve to commit to the half hour of hell, prepare , get organised and of course have a large slice of luck.  A ballot is just a large slice of luck. I would imagine it would attract more applicants, many of whom not to bothered if they succeed, for want of a better phrase,  it’s a lazy way of getting a ticket.