Pre erected camping

[ghostdancer1]

10 minutes ago, Superscally said:

That's because you want it to be that way. I'm not saying punter X in WV is individually worse than the same on Pennards. You certainly wish that to be the case, as would everyone who. You're also misusing the strawman term as do 95% of people who use it. 

My argument was that the provision and drive to provide services like WV is part of a wider problem that means that Glastonbury is changing for the worse in terms of providing a more bucketlist experience to show off about whilst getting fucked up in many cases, rather than engaging with what the festival is about. 

As @Zoo Music Girl stated, yep I don't have to keep going and at one point in the future I maybe won't, but there is a point in raising things not being as good as they used to be otherwise it's an inexorable slide into mediocrity. At the moment, there is still enough there for me. In the last two festivals in particular I've seen fights, women shitting in crowds and people pissing on the outside of the urinals. I never used to see this kind of shit (on this scale) and I've been going for twenty years. You think it isn't changing for the worst? You think it's not worth highlighting? That sounds silly to me. I'll complain BECAUSE I care.

you're right mate, no-one shat or pissed where they shouldn't 20 years ago. People having a wash is clearly worse than the stabbings and muggings of yesteryear too.

[Tommy Dickfingers]

35 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Your figures are both incorrect for the obvious reasons stated above and also irrelevant as it's not about the provision, it's the demand. People aren't willing to muck in and get on with things and hence are turning it into Proms in the Park. People washing wellies under taps, pissing in the streams because they can't be arsed to walk, putting tablecloths and chairs down and fuming if you enter their space. All part of the same, slowly worsening problem. 

Yeah I had no idea on figures was a total guess. My point is how can such a small percentage of people have such a massive difference?

[Keithy]

Not sure how it changes the demographic. Rich, poor, posh, working class, old or young - we all have the same ticket day lottery. 

If WV was sold separately with a ticket then you could argue that it might change the demographic on the basis that rich folk can buy a pitch and ticket etc. But that argument falls down when (as people have said) it works out at only 30 quid per person per night and WV isn't exactly the height of luxury. 

I don't get the bucket list thing either. WV isn't a package deal you can buy.

You have the ticket bunfight and then the WV bunfight. It's not exactly a gimme.

[Superscally]

5 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Then you've been walking around with your eyes closed.

And you're the one calling conjecture??? ????

In response to the recent posters, since the fence went up the wild west feel went down dramatically and those crimes have gone down, so it was a positive change but (and this isn't just my view, but one well aired on here and in my experiences of talking to people from all areas of the festival), that the vibe has changed to one of less respect and tolerance. The totem issue of taking tents home isn't an excuse for the littering (which is definitely worse) and the fact that pissing on the land is way worse than it was since the late 2000's. I'm aware that these views are going to raise the hackles of many and I'm not trying to be deliberately inflammatory, I'm just commenting on something that is a real trend. What's the solution? God knows? Maybe just people should be nicer and respect the land and each other more. This used to be a huge pull for people, now I doubt it comes in most people's top twenty and certainly way below the "get a selfie with Ed Sheeran in the background for Instagram". Like I said I'm not attacking anyone for using a service that exists if they can afford it, I just wish it didn't and everyone got on the same.

[parsonjack]

Bloody hell.....we've had enough with Pizza Express being invaded by the nobility....is nothing sacred anymore?

Edited November 20, 2019 by parsonjack

[Superscally]

17 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

apart from chairs that all happened in the 80's and 90's as well.

Come in Fred, you know it's worse now. Way worse.

[Superscally]

3 minutes ago, Keithy said:

Not sure how it changes the demographic. Rich, poor, posh, working class, old or young - we all have the same ticket day...

I don't get the bucket list thing either. WV isn't a package deal you can buy.

You have the ticket bunfight and then the WV bunfight. It's not exactly a gimme.

It will be soon, I'd wager, but regardless of that, if you now open your market to a group of people who would not tolerate minor hardship in one aspect of their life, it stands to reason that they will be upset about other things. This includes standing in front of them or jumping to the beat in front of them, queues for toilets etc. 

This is an UNDENIABLE fact. 

[Hugh Jass]

2 minutes ago, Superscally said:

It will be soon, I'd wager, but regardless of that, if you now open your market to a group of people who would not tolerate minor hardship in one aspect of their life, it stands to reason that they will be upset about other things. This includes standing in front of them or jumping to the beat in front of them, queues for toilets etc. 

This is an UNDENIABLE fact. 

Wow...

[Zoo Music Girl]

7 minutes ago, Superscally said:

And you're the one calling conjecture??? ????

In response to the recent posters, since the fence went up the wild west feel went down dramatically and those crimes have gone down, so it was a positive change but (and this isn't just my view, but one well aired on here and in my experiences of talking to people from all areas of the festival), that the vibe has changed to one of less respect and tolerance. The totem issue of taking tents home isn't an excuse for the littering (which is definitely worse) and the fact that pissing on the land is way worse than it was since the late 2000's. I'm aware that these views are going to raise the hackles of many and I'm not trying to be deliberately inflammatory, I'm just commenting on something that is a real trend. What's the solution? God knows? Maybe just people should be nicer and respect the land and each other more. This used to be a huge pull for people, now I doubt it comes in most people's top twenty and certainly way below the "get a selfie with Ed Sheeran in the background for Instagram". Like I said I'm not attacking anyone for using a service that exists if they can afford it, I just wish it didn't and everyone got on the same.

How do you know the people who take selfies (shock horror) and piss on the land are the ones from WV? I don't get how you are linking prepitched camping to these things. Certainly the people who leave all their shit behind aren't in prepitched camping.

Obviously it has changed, some things for the better and some things for the worse, just as it has every decade. It was probably an unrecognisable festival in the 1990s to those who came in the 70s. Society changes. I just don't see how the negative things you cite are linked to WV etc. You've not really explained it.

[Superscally]

2 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Wow...

Do go on. 

[Superscally]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

How do you know the people who take selfies (shock horror) and piss on the land are the ones from WV? I don't get how you are linking prepitched camping to these things. Certainly the people who leave all their shit behind aren't in prepitched camping.

Obviously it has changed, some things for the better and some things for the worse, just as it has every decade. It was probably an unrecognisable festival in the 1990s to those who came in the 70s. Society changes. I just don't see how the negative things you cite are linked to WV etc. You've not really explained it.

I've been at pains to make it clear I don't think the WV Massive are a rampant pillaging horde. I was just saying that it's part of a catering to a different demographic who attend the festival that has coincided with a lack of respect and a less welcoming vibe (though it is still better than most). Correlation is not causation and all that...as there's hardly likely to be a double-blinded peer reviewed study into the reasons for it, I'm allowed to express an opinion, which is I'd rather there was an all-pitch in theme rather than something that replicates the ever widening wealth gap in our society. My view. I expect people who quite like the gap will disagree. That's fair enough to, but it doesn't invalidate what I'd rather have. 

[ghostdancer1]

12 minutes ago, Superscally said:

It will be soon, I'd wager, but regardless of that, if you now open your market to a group of people who would not tolerate minor hardship in one aspect of their life, it stands to reason that they will be upset about other things. This includes standing in front of them or jumping to the beat in front of them, queues for toilets etc. 

This is an UNDENIABLE fact. 

not tolerate minor hardship?

people are still sleeping on airbeds or mats, in sleeping bags, with hoodies for pillows, and eating mashed up cereal bars out of their Decathlon rucksacks.

you clearly don't have a fucking clue about Worthy View. there's FAR less hardship in the campervan field for christs sake.

 

please, stop embarrassing yourself.

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by ghostdancer1

[Superscally]

7 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

not tolerate minor hardship?

people are still sleeping on airbeds or mats, in sleeping bags, with hoodies for pillows, and eating mashed up cereal bars out of their Decathlon rucksacks.

you clearly don't have a fucking clue about Worthy View. there's FAR less hardship in the campervan field for christs sake.

 

please, stop embarrassing yourself.

 

I'm not embarrassing myself at all. You're just repeatedly missing my point.

My only regret was naming WV directly rather than referring to glamping as a whole. I'll edit that. I'm completely with you on the campervan thing. If people have one, why not use it. Some people actually live in theirs. Hiring one for a grand? Yup, that's probably from a different demographic than festival goers of previous years. A yurt for 6k? Probably different. Do I see a different demographic at the festival? Yes. Do I like it? Not as much as the previous one. Do I still think Glasto is the best festival in the world? Yes. Will it always be? Who knows. If anything gets progressively shitter, it runs the risk. While the entertainment provision goes from strength to strength, I can't see the wheels coming off yet, but there may be a point where if you alienate your original 'customer' base, you could be in trouble. 

[Hugh Jass]

At least Russy was good at this.

[Superscally]

3 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

At least Russy was good at this.

Yawn. 

[scaryclaireyfairy]

The only people I know who usually go to WV have a combination of work and travel issues that make it the only reasonable option. This means they have to save more to afford it. It seems to be broadly the same for most up there. It's not a luxury option.

[Hugh Jass]

5 minutes ago, Superscally said:

Yawn. 

Yes, you are rather dull.

[dotdash79]

Why are we all fighting amongst ourselves,  worthy view and general campers would have the same fight for tickets. 
 

our real enemy is the offsite camping with hospitality tickets included.  

[waynewdk]

2 hours ago, imrickjamesbitch said:

No mention of showers at Sticklinch, anybody got any info, thanks ?

They talk about disable access to showers and toilets so I’m guessing so

 

[Havors]

Its a great idea to add another campsite for multiple reasons:

1. Help prevent the amount of tents and crap left behind (leave no trace)

2. Alleviate the growing pressure on the facilities at Worth View

3. New one is easier to access by coach travellers

4. The new one doesnt have the "Hill" so better for less mobile and disabled punters

As for the price.... yes I think it is becoming a bit silly with the prices and a bit of a cash cow. (This year alone alot of the tent prices have raised by £50+ which is way way way above inflation. 

Saying that though.... when there is a group of you and you split the cost its still worth it. 5 nights for 2 people in a 2 man tents is approx £160 per person. Thats cheaper than hotels. You get good parking, toilets and showers included. Its value for money.... well at least it HAS been in the passed if they continue to increase the prices as they have it will soon be £500 for a basic 2 man scout which will just be taking the piss out of us. 

[waynewdk]

5 minutes ago, Havors said:

Its a great idea to add another campsite for multiple reasons:

1. Help prevent the amount of tents and crap left behind (leave no trace)

2. Alleviate the growing pressure on the facilities at Worth View

3. New one is easier to access by coach travellers

4. The new one doesnt have the "Hill" so better for less mobile and disabled punters

As for the price.... yes I think it is becoming a bit silly with the prices and a bit of a cash cow. (This year alone alot of the tent prices have raised by £50+ which is way way way above inflation. 

Saying that though.... when there is a group of you and you split the cost its still worth it. 5 nights for 2 people in a 2 man tents is approx £160 per person. Thats cheaper than hotels. You get good parking, toilets and showers included. Its value for money.... well at least it HAS been in the passed if they continue to increase the prices as they have it will soon be £500 for a basic 2 man scout which will just be taking the piss out of us. 

I think No. 2 will be the same or even more busier, as all the larger tents/ sheds have been removed, which will give more area for more scout tents, with them having a four sided base they will get more into the area, left by the circle, octagon ones

Edited November 20, 2019 by waynewdk

[Superscally]

21 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

Why are we all fighting amongst ourselves,  worthy view and general campers would have the same fight for tickets. 
 

our real enemy is the offsite camping with hospitality tickets included.  

Ah I'm not fighting. Merely being attacked for answering the OP in the affirmative by a couple of people who appear at least temporarily have lost the ability to process and respond to an opinion. I'm fine with someone venting the day's pressures on me, I'm big enough to take it. I'll even give them hugs if they want.

[GoonerRob]

1 hour ago, Superscally said:

I've been at pains to make it clear I don't think the WV Massive are a rampant pillaging horde. I was just saying that it's part of a catering to a different demographic who attend the festival that has coincided with a lack of respect and a less welcoming vibe (though it is still better than most). Correlation is not causation and all that...as there's hardly likely to be a double-blinded peer reviewed study into the reasons for it, I'm allowed to express an opinion, which is I'd rather there was an all-pitch in theme rather than something that replicates the ever widening wealth gap in our society. My view. I expect people who quite like the gap will disagree. That's fair enough to, but it doesn't invalidate what I'd rather have. 

It's weird, I can afford worth view... but fuck climbing up that hill after 10 ciders and a few joints. It's not really about money. 

I have much more of an issue with the £1000+ ticket and offsite camping packages (flyglastonbury anyone?!?) than those who want to pay a significantly smaller amount to inconvenience themselves (searched everyday, no thanks!!)

 

[Simsy]

2 hours ago, Superscally said:

That's because you want it to be that way. I'm not saying punter X in WV is individually worse than the same on Pennards. You certainly wish that to be the case, as would everyone who. You're also misusing the strawman term as do 95% of people who use it. 

My argument was that the provision and drive to provide services like WV is part of a wider problem that means that Glastonbury is changing for the worse in terms of providing a more bucketlist experience to show off about whilst getting fucked up in many cases, rather than engaging with what the festival is about. 

As @Zoo Music Girl stated, yep I don't have to keep going and at one point in the future I maybe won't, but there is a point in raising things not being as good as they used to be otherwise it's an inexorable slide into mediocrity. At the moment, there is still enough there for me. In the last two festivals in particular I've seen fights, women shitting in crowds and people pissing on the outside of the urinals. I never used to see this kind of shit (on this scale) and I've been going for twenty years. You think it isn't changing for the worst? You think it's not worth highlighting? That sounds silly to me. I'll complain BECAUSE I care.

How much crossover is there in the Venn diagram of people who would only go to Glasto if they had easy access to showers and flushing loos, and people who would shit in a crowd?

[Superscally]

3 minutes ago, Simsy said:

How much crossover is there in the Venn diagram of people who would only go to Glasto if they had easy access to showers and flushing loos, and people who would shit in a crowd?

We'll the girl I saw doing it was immaculately groomed (face and hair, I didn't look that closely) on a Saturday afternoon and looked straight out of a GAP advert as did her giggling friends so I'd say n >/=1 in the centre ?