2020 Line-up Thread

[xxialac]

14 hours ago, The Nal said:

The issue is the bands though. Theyre not going to go on tour if a load of the dates have been binned. Germany, Spain, France, Italy etc. Thats where they make their money. Its all or nothing really so even if EOTR could go ahead the bands won't be around to play.

It’s not just about the bands though. Otherwise they could be cobble together some U.K. bands who would love to bring in some income.

Rather, the government is simply not going to allow mass participation events in just over 3 months, the like of which could put a huge strain on the NHS. What is there to be gained? 
 

[The Nal]

On 4/25/2020 at 12:05 AM, xxialac said:

It’s not just about the bands though. Otherwise they could be cobble together some U.K. bands who would love to bring in some income.

Rather, the government is simply not going to allow mass participation events in just over 3 months, the like of which could put a huge strain on the NHS. What is there to be gained? 
 

Oh sure, nothing. But theoretically, if it was announced that it was safe to do so, most of those bands on the poster wouldn't be around to play anyway. 

[xxialac]

1 hour ago, The Nal said:

Oh sure, nothing. But theoretically, if it was announced that it was safe to do so, most of those bands on the poster wouldn't be around to play anyway. 

Yeah that’s also definitely true. 
I’m hopeful the festival can hold on until next year, which will rely on most people holding onto their ticket. Which I think they will - there’s a lot of love and goodwill towards the festival.

[Fareham Grecian]

20 hours ago, xxialac said:

Yeah that’s also definitely true. 
I’m hopeful the festival can hold on until next year, which will rely on most people holding onto their ticket. Which I think they will - there’s a lot of love and goodwill towards the festival.

Not a representative sample (though no reason why it shouldn’t be), but the half dozen people I attend with will roll over our tickets for next year without a moment’s thought. 

[Born in the fifties]

20 hours ago, xxialac said:

Yeah that’s also definitely true. 
I’m hopeful the festival can hold on until next year, which will rely on most people holding onto their ticket. Which I think they will - there’s a lot of love and goodwill towards the festival.

I'm holding onto mine....ticket, that is.

[RedRockRick]

Just had this scenario with Black Deer Festival: reassuringly, with the ticket rollover, they've already announced next years line-up which has most of this years line-up re-committing to play next year.  

[Nick07]

On 4/22/2020 at 9:55 AM, zahidf said:

I dont think speculation at this stage is helpful. They wont have to make a decision until end of june/early july so let's see what the situation is like nearer the time.

Yes they will 

[SweepingTheNation]

On 4/27/2020 at 10:56 AM, xxialac said:

Yeah that’s also definitely true. 
I’m hopeful the festival can hold on until next year, which will rely on most people holding onto their ticket. Which I think they will - there’s a lot of love and goodwill towards the festival.

Yeah, from hearsay it does seem most people at the more niche events that have been cancelled for this year are when offered refund or carry over are choosing the latter. The fatalistic view then, of course, is the reason for refund offer being presented as a secondary option being the potential that the next time we see that money is when listed amongst the creditors in the administrators' report...

[The Nal]

Big Thief show on September 2nd cancelled. There was just that show and EOTR the following night in that leg of the tour.

[SweepingTheNation]

Idle thought - almost all postponed sizeable festivals are primarily offering the transfer of tickets over to 2021 so presumably that's what EOTR will do - but with the same budget available for such a US-heavy top end of the lineup against the knock-on effects of booking costs, air travel etc (not to mention whatever happens once the Brexit transferral period has ended if it still happens at the end of this year) surely they aren't going to be able to put on the same or even similar size bill as this year, maybe even permanently screwing up the USP of what we've come to love about its booking policy?

[zahidf]

27 minutes ago, SweepingTheNation said:

Idle thought - almost all postponed sizeable festivals are primarily offering the transfer of tickets over to 2021 so presumably that's what EOTR will do - but with the same budget available for such a US-heavy top end of the lineup against the knock-on effects of booking costs, air travel etc (not to mention whatever happens once the Brexit transferral period has ended if it still happens at the end of this year) surely they aren't going to be able to put on the same or even similar size bill as this year, maybe even permanently screwing up the USP of what we've come to love about its booking policy?

I suspect that's what they are looking at! But stuff like the pixies will be over for other stuff anyway. It's so up in the air for sure though. 

[xxialac]

3 hours ago, SweepingTheNation said:

Idle thought - almost all postponed sizeable festivals are primarily offering the transfer of tickets over to 2021 so presumably that's what EOTR will do - but with the same budget available for such a US-heavy top end of the lineup against the knock-on effects of booking costs, air travel etc (not to mention whatever happens once the Brexit transferral period has ended if it still happens at the end of this year) surely they aren't going to be able to put on the same or even similar size bill as this year, maybe even permanently screwing up the USP of what we've come to love about its booking policy?

No festivals are going to match the bills of this year unless bands take a pay cut, albeit this is possible.  Bands should be touring like hell in 2021 which will reduce their booking fee.

Simple economics says they now have a major dent to their accounts that can only be overcome by reducing their expenditure.

 

[zahidf]

3 hours ago, xxialac said:

No festivals are going to match the bills of this year unless bands take a pay cut, albeit this is possible.  Bands should be touring like hell in 2021 which will reduce their booking fee.

Simple economics says they now have a major dent to their accounts that can only be overcome by reducing their expenditure.

 

Potentially but it's hard to know for sure. Something like EOTR and Green man with high presales would want to keep the ticket buyers for this year on board. Easiest way to do that is to keep the line up for 2021

[xxialac]

Just now, zahidf said:

Potentially but it's hard to know for sure. Something like EOTR and Green man with high presales would want to keep the ticket buyers for this year on board. Easiest way to do that is to keep the line up for 2021

So how do you plug the hole that is an entire year (12 months) of zero income?

Not many businesses could cope 3 months without, let alone 12...

[zahidf]

40 minutes ago, xxialac said:

So how do you plug the hole that is an entire year (12 months) of zero income?

Not many businesses could cope 3 months without, let alone 12...

Their expenses would be less as the festival expenses wont go ahead. 

Its far from ideal of course and yes, they will take an income hit, but if they get most of their current ticket holders to go next year instead it'll be better for them. For that, they'd need the same line up really.

 

[xxialac]

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Their expenses would be less as the festival expenses wont go ahead. 

Its far from ideal of course and yes, they will take an income hit, but if they get most of their current ticket holders to go next year instead it'll be better for them. For that, they'd need the same line up really.

 

12 month income - £0

12 month expenses - unknown (but far from £0, core staff salaries and some suppliers already paid e.g. ticketing, marketing)

The problem is evident...

I don't agree that they need the the same lineup.  End Of The Road has a very loyal support base sells out every year and therefore could potentially have a cheaper lineup than normal (that helps plug some of the financial gap) and yet still sells out. People will be keener than ever for festivals post recovery after a year without.

In any case they don't need to pre-announce who will play next year to get people to roll their tickets over. Most festivals aren't doing so...  

[Fareham Grecian]

16 hours ago, SweepingTheNation said:

Idle thought - almost all postponed sizeable festivals are primarily offering the transfer of tickets over to 2021 so presumably that's what EOTR will do - but with the same budget available for such a US-heavy top end of the lineup against the knock-on effects of booking costs, air travel etc (not to mention whatever happens once the Brexit transferral period has ended if it still happens at the end of this year) surely they aren't going to be able to put on the same or even similar size bill as this year, maybe even permanently screwing up the USP of what we've come to love about its booking policy?

They have already said they will offer the choice of a refund or rolling over tickets for next year. I’d love it if they could roll over the lineup too as several other festivals have done, but as you say the number of overseas artists, particularly US, makes this look virtually impossible. 

[retromoz]

9 hours ago, xxialac said:

12 month income - £0

12 month expenses - unknown (but far from £0, core staff salaries and some suppliers already paid e.g. ticketing, marketing)

The problem is evident...

I don't agree that they need the the same lineup.  End Of The Road has a very loyal support base sells out every year and therefore could potentially have a cheaper lineup than normal (that helps plug some of the financial gap) and yet still sells out. People will be keener than ever for festivals post recovery after a year without.

In any case they don't need to pre-announce who will play next year to get people to roll their tickets over. Most festivals aren't doing so...  

According to the filings in Companies house, their last accounts filing (ending Oct 2018) stated that they had £375,330 of equity. With a smallish festival, Im SURE that would cover a year of not having  a festival on. Costs will be substantially down, do to not hiring all the infrastructure needed, artists not being paid etc. They seem to run their festival VERY well, so Im SURE they would be one of the events with will continue to thrive in 2021 and beyond, not matter what the line up is next year (if it gets cancelled).

[xxialac]

16 minutes ago, retromoz said:

According to the filings in Companies house, their last accounts filing (ending Oct 2018) stated that they had £375,330 of equity. With a smallish festival, Im SURE that would cover a year of not having  a festival on. Costs will be substantially down, do to not hiring all the infrastructure needed, artists not being paid etc. They seem to run their festival VERY well, so Im SURE they would be one of the events with will continue to thrive in 2021 and beyond, not matter what the line up is next year (if it gets cancelled).

Good intel. Broadly agree with everything though they may have had much less equity in Oct 2019 than £375k and it doesn't take that many annual staff salaries to reduce that figure to near zero.

[SweepingTheNation]

12 hours ago, zahidf said:

Potentially but it's hard to know for sure. Something like EOTR and Green man with high presales would want to keep the ticket buyers for this year on board. Easiest way to do that is to keep the line up for 2021

People will go to EOTR and Green Man whatever. Look how quickly the early birds usually sell out, and indeed how quickly GM completely sold out this year with what was widely seen as a weaker lineup - and for next year the majority of people will elect to defer their tickets, even without the cast iron guarantee until some time next late winter/spring that there'll be a GM/EOTR at all, whether because of the continuing situation or because they can't keep it going.

And what's to assume, as I implied, that they can ensure the same lineup? What if, let's say, Angel Olsen finds it's now too expensive to take her whole live show abroad with travel and accomodation costs - both from US to Europe and then the very likely now more difficult, delaying and expensive step from the well paid European circuit into the UK - against possibly reduced fees? (Or of course would just want to put this lost year behind her and get on with new music) What about Larmer Tree Gardens' financial situation? Or Simon's personal circumstances? There's currently no festival rescue package or charity fund as there is for venues.

[retromoz]

36 minutes ago, SweepingTheNation said:

There's currently no festival rescue package or charity fund as there is for venues.

This is a VERY good point! For a lot of us, festivals are just as important to the cultural fabric of the country as venues are. I havent heard of any company (Festival Republic, Live Nation etc) or the  independents asking for help etc. They might be, but the media (BBC, Guardian, specialist music sites) I read arn't highlighting it if they are....Maybe they should. Because, with a tiny few exceptions, I would NOT want the festival 'scene' to disappear because of this nastiness....

I will write to my MP. He's a tory, so wont know his arse from his elbow, but its something.....

[The Nal]

Interview with Fiona Apple recently and she was saying the people at her level - theatre size - are really going to struggle to tour next year with the amount of bands that will be out on the road. There just won't be enough room for everyone!

[SweepingTheNation]

4 hours ago, retromoz said:

This is a VERY good point! For a lot of us, festivals are just as important to the cultural fabric of the country as venues are. I havent heard of any company (Festival Republic, Live Nation etc) or the  independents asking for help etc. They might be, but the media (BBC, Guardian, specialist music sites) I read arn't highlighting it if they are....Maybe they should. Because, with a tiny few exceptions, I would NOT want the festival 'scene' to disappear because of this nastiness....

I will write to my MP. He's a tory, so wont know his arse from his elbow, but its something.....

The Association of Independent Festivals, the body which represents a whole host of festivals including EOTR (and Field Day, 2000 Trees, Truck, Blue Dot, Y-Not, Belladrum, Deer Shed, Standon Calling, Kendal Calling, Swn...) has since the lockdown began added nothing to its site and two posts to its Facebook, both links, an online magazine article from the end of March about the European circuit being in limbo and a BBC piece in which they're quoted as telling fans to hang on to their tickets for next year. It looks from their Twitter like their members had a crisis meeting... on March 24th. If we're being charitable maybe they're waiting to see what happens?

[xxialac]

1 hour ago, The Nal said:

Interview with Fiona Apple recently and she was saying the people at her level - theatre size - are really going to struggle to tour next year with the amount of bands that will be out on the road. There just won't be enough room for everyone!

I think a much bigger problem is music venues that have been closed down for lack of funds and turned into accommodation, never to reopen. 

At least a festival doesn't have permanent infrastructure...

[The Nal]

35 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I think a much bigger problem is music venues that have been closed down for lack of funds and turned into accommodation, never to reopen. 

At least a festival doesn't have permanent infrastructure...

Yeah. Supply either way. Its just not going to be there.