When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

I might have to actually buy the sunday times.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

still doesn't look good when looking back...especially with all the stuff that's starting t come out, and I'm sure there will be plenty more.

Of course it doesn’t, but other than Germany it’s much of a muchness isn’t it? Spain acted sooner but have it nearly twice as bad, Sweden haven’t gone into lockdown but don’t have it as bad. When all is said and done the biggest single consideration will be, was your health service overwhelmed at any point?

[zahidf]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Of course it doesn’t, but other than Germany it’s much of a muchness isn’t it? Spain acted sooner but have it nearly twice as bad, Sweden haven’t gone into lockdown but don’t have it as bad. When all is said and done the biggest single consideration will be, was your health service overwhelmed at any point?

I'd say not having enough PPE and healthcare deaths as a result because you're not working weekends and missing cobra meetings to divorce your missus for a younger model would be an important consideration...

[steviewevie]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Of course it doesn’t, but other than Germany it’s much of a muchness isn’t it? Spain acted sooner but have it nearly twice as bad, Sweden haven’t gone into lockdown but don’t have it as bad. When all is said and done the biggest single consideration will be, was your health service overwhelmed at any point?

and were your health workers supported and protected properly.

It will be numbers of deaths...if health services overhwelmed then death numbers would be much higher anyway.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Of course it doesn’t, but other than Germany it’s much of a muchness isn’t it? Spain acted sooner but have it nearly twice as bad, Sweden haven’t gone into lockdown but don’t have it as bad. When all is said and done the biggest single consideration will be, was your health service overwhelmed at any point?

And what point that health service will be able to catch up with all the other issues that this has created ? We don’t have capacity in normal times because of underfunding .... so it’s not just the in the moment virus it’s every other issue around that 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I'd say not having enough PPE and healthcare deaths as a result because you're not working weekends and missing cobra meetings to divorce your missus for a younger model would be an important consideration...

Again, easy to sit in your armchair and criticise with the benefit of hindsight. Of course your points are absolutely true, but it doesn’t change the reality of trying to secure enough PPE for our healthcare workers alongside the rest of the world also trying do the same thing. Short of already having sufficient stocks of it to deal with a pandemic before the actual pandemic started, it was always going to be a less than ideal situation. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

And what point that health service will be able to catch up with all the other issues that this has created ? We don’t have capacity in normal times because of underfunding .... so it’s not just the in the moment virus it’s every other issue around that 

It will be the same in all those other countries 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

It will be the same in all those other countries 

but they will have capacity to catch up more quickly ... 

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Again, easy to sit in your armchair and criticise with the benefit of hindsight. Of course your points are absolutely true, but it doesn’t change the reality of trying to secure enough PPE for our healthcare workers alongside the rest of the world also trying do the same thing. Short of already having sufficient stocks of it to deal with a pandemic before the actual pandemic started, it was always going to be a less than ideal situation. 

There is evidence that they didnt try to get it sooner or ask domestic manufacturers to make it sooner. Perfectly reasonable to ask why that was 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

There is evidence that they didnt try to get it sooner or ask domestic manufacturers to make it sooner. Perfectly reasonable to ask why that was 

I agree in that certainly. I’m just always reluctant to use hindsight to criticise to the extreme, when apart from Germany the situation is more or less the same in every other country. South Korea isn’t really a good example because they’ve had recent experience of dealing with this which no European countries have.

[zahidf]

 

Number 10 leaking their exit strategy 

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I agree in that certainly. I’m just always reluctant to use hindsight to criticise to the extreme, when apart from Germany the situation is more or less the same in every other country. South Korea isn’t really a good example because they’ve had recent experience of dealing with this which no European countries have.

I dunno, this from the times story dosnt seem ideal 

[steviewevie]

[Mr.Tease]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I dunno, this from the times story dosnt seem ideal 

He's notoriously lazy- going back to his days of London Mayor staff said he was lazy and genuinely didn't care

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Number 10 leaking their exit strategy 

I would say those are leaks from those in cabinet or downing st who are pushing for an exit....cabinet is split.

We'll see.

[stuartbert two hats]

50 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Again, easy to sit in your armchair and criticise with the benefit of hindsight. Of course your points are absolutely true, but it doesn’t change the reality of trying to secure enough PPE for our healthcare workers alongside the rest of the world also trying do the same thing. Short of already having sufficient stocks of it to deal with a pandemic before the actual pandemic started, it was always going to be a less than ideal situation. 

This hindsight think is complete bollocks. Plenty of people had foresight.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

This hindsight think is complete bollocks. Plenty of people had foresight.

Well yes, plenty of people could’ve had the foresight to order more PPE couldn’t they; but that’s only half the issue 

[dotdash79]

The initial response was the correct one, but that was only going to buy you time which should have been used to to gear up. I thought that what they were doing, but it turns out that they just fucked off on holiday. 

[WhoamI?]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

This working from home is great for the environment to ... wonder what productivity is like though hopefully it’s very workable 

I was thinking this before, about protecting the environment by more people working from home.  I was also hoping some new good ideas for planet earth might emerge from the situation.  Yes I am an optimist, (sorry).

[Madyaker]

We’re going to be stuck in a loop and of loosening and tightening the lockdowns for a few months I think. At least until testing increases massively. When lockdown is lifted the case numbers will start to creep up again surely. 

[gizmoman]

2 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I’ve insisted this must have been the case for a while. China had this as early as October, certainly well before 31st December when they first told the WHO about it (convenient day to bury bad news, huh) 

Bit more about the timeline here anyway: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html

I find it difficult to imagine a scenario with the the U.K. being a major global transport hub, and Heathrow being the third busiest airport in the world, that not one single infected person arrived here from China in December or January.

Places like Windsor and Bicester village are year round tourist destinations for Chinese tourists, Bicester specifically around Xmas and the new year. Obviously London is a hub for business any time of year.

 The his article explains there is no real reason Italy had it sooner, and maybe they just detected it sooner: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-italy

It talks about a higher than normal instance of pneumonia like cases in Italy in January, around 80 people a day die of pneumonia here every day in normal circumstances, I find it hard to imagine that a few extra nationally in January would’ve been picked up.

 

That article doesn't mention the fact that Northern Italy has 100,000 chinese workers to run factories and shops in the garment trade, that's why they have direct flights from China. To suggest 2 tourists brought in the disease when they have regular flights bringing workers to and from China is suspect.

[jparx]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

This working from home is great for the environment to ... wonder what productivity is like though hopefully it’s very workable 

I hope a lot of business realise that people are capable of working from home, and driving to an office isn’t particularly crucial for operating business as usual. Perhaps alternating days in the office and days at home is a good start. It would drastically reduce my personal emissions.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Just now, jparx said:

I hope a lot of business realise that people are capable of working from home, and driving to an office isn’t particularly crucial for operating business as usual. Perhaps alternating days in the office and days at home is a good start. It would drastically reduce my personal emissions.

I know a few people at my old company, there are about 150 people working there and they bought every single one of them a laptop so they can all work from home. That’s a significant enough investment that you’d assume they’ll be far more willing to allow to happen a lot more in the future. There were always rows about parking there as there wasn’t enough, letting people work from home solves that immediately as well as being far better for the environment and helping to stop the virus spreading.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, jparx said:

I hope a lot of business realise that people are capable of working from home, and driving to an office isn’t particularly crucial for operating business as usual. Perhaps alternating days in the office and days at home is a good start. It would drastically reduce my personal emissions.

I think I’d struggle not to get distracted with other things myself but FairPlay to those that can focus ... my output would probably be other things .. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

For a lot of companies where WFH is possible it’s not really productivity that’s the concern it’s data integrity. For a lot of businesses people working from home could far more easily steal client data