U.S. Presidential Election

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

if the outcome is peace he'll be pretty happy i guess.

Lost a quarter of the country as well as Crimea, but better than losing all of it I guess.

Big question is what guarantees there will be that Russia won't carry on invading in a few years.

[maelzoid]

14 hours ago, Neil said:

if the outcome is peace he'll be pretty happy i guess.

You say peace. I say surrender. 

Trump will probably lift all sanctions against Russia allowing them to open up supply lines to the front and become an utterly overwhelming force. If Ukraine surrender, they will lose all the land taken, but also there will be other conditions, most likely financial ones ie. Putin will force them to bear the financial cost of the war and be indebted to them for huge sums of money. Another part of any surrender will be guarantees that Ukraine does not join NATO, the EU or any other form of alliance either military or trade-based with any of its neighbours. The upshot of this will be Ukraine essentially becomes a failed state, and a few years down the line is absorbed by Russia. There will be years of discord and probably violence in the area, not to mention the human cost of chronic poverty.

 

So, Ukraine are fighting for their very survival.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

You say peace. I say surrender. 

Trump will probably lift all sanctions against Russia allowing them to open up supply lines to the front and become an utterly overwhelming force. If Ukraine surrender, they will lose all the land taken, but also there will be other conditions, most likely financial ones ie. Putin will force them to bear the financial cost of the war and be indebted to them for huge sums of money. Another part of any surrender will be guarantees that Ukraine does not join NATO, the EU or any other form of alliance either military or trade-based with any of its neighbours. The upshot of this will be Ukraine essentially becomes a failed state, and a few years down the line is absorbed by Russia. There will be years of discord and probably violence in the area, not to mention the human cost of chronic poverty.

 

So, Ukraine are fighting for their very survival.

Ukraine aren't going to drive Russia out, they may have had a chance last year but they didn't get what they needed from west for fear of escalation and now it has ended up a grim war of attrition and Russia seems to have the upper hand. If Harris had won there would still likely be a deal of some sorts next year, but Ukraine may have been able to fight on a bit longer, and apparently Russian economy is in trouble...but western countries are becoming less supportive as seen with Trump winning, and the end is nigh.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, maelzoid said:

You say peace. I say surrender. 

the important bit for zelensky would be that war is over, which he's said he wants.

[steviewevie]

Maybe Biden's parting gift will be nuclear war.

[steviewevie]

shocker

at least he'll be able to spend more time with some kids

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

Bad, wrong, a gift for Trump and Republicans going forward, and understandable.