news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

28 minutes ago, lost said:

The benefits vs tax payers thing has been trending up for years though the sharp move during COVID is concerning:

Also having so much tax come from such a small pool is concerning too as it only takes a few to move abroad to have a massive drop in revenue.

Aging population

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Aging population

and more long term illness due to austerity and covid.

[Guest]

We should be taxing the rich more and them potentially moving away because we tell them to pay more tax isn’t a reason to not put their taxes up.  

[steviewevie]

Hallelujah

 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, lost said:

The benefits vs tax payers thing has been trending up for years though the sharp move during COVID is concerning:

is a consequence of furlough.

[Neil]

35 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Hallelujah

 

everyone wants and needs that care when the shit hits the fan. i know how lucky i am to have a fantastic supportive wife. 🙂 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Neil

[Crazyfool01]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

 

How’s the polling looking with these latest Tory scandals … have they sunk any lower in the last few weeks or have they hit a threshold where the voters that remain will vote for them whatever ? 

[Justiceforcedave]

31 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

How’s the polling looking with these latest Tory scandals … have they sunk any lower in the last few weeks or have they hit a threshold where the voters that remain will vote for them whatever ? 

It's almost farcical at this point. Bring on the latest scandal I say! Let's get Johnson back in! 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Justiceforcedave said:

It's almost farcical at this point. Bring on the latest scandal I say! Let's get Johnson back in! 

It is indeed although I’m not sure about getting Johnson back in !!  Another day another scandal 

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

It's almost farcical at this point. 

 its been farcical for ages. public are noticing the diversion tactics too now.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

How’s the polling looking with these latest Tory scandals … have they sunk any lower in the last few weeks or have they hit a threshold where the voters that remain will vote for them whatever ? 

We haven’t had much polling since the latest scandals but this one would be the closest which is kind of just margin of error stuff.

Sunaks approval ratings have fallen though.

 

[Crazyfool01]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

We haven’t had much polling since the latest scandals but this one would be the closest which is kind of just margin of error stuff.

Sunaks approval ratings have fallen though.

 

And that’s with You gov … does make you wonder how much more there is that hasn’t been revealed yet … 

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

And that’s with You gov … does make you wonder how much more there is that hasn’t been revealed yet … 

don't think they'd lie about their polling, would destroy the business if it got found out.

[lazyred]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

I'll try again. All the Scottish law does it make it easier to get a GRC. Trans women do not require a GRC to use Women only spaces. This is true throughout the UK.

 

Try harder. The 2010 equality act has exemptions to protect single sex spaces for women. A recent Scottish Court case means that trans women with a GRC can access these spaces. Thus making it easier to get a GRC makes it easier for trans women, who are mostly still male bodied, to access these spaces. This is the basis for the UK Govt blocking the new law as it undermines the Equality act in the rest of the UK. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Crazyfool01 said:

And that’s with You gov … does make you wonder how much more there is that hasn’t been revealed yet … 

Do you mean revelations about Ministers that have yet to come out? I reckon there’s a fair bit to come, especially if Johnson tries to make a comeback. 

[Crazyfool01]

15 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Do you mean revelations about Ministers that have yet to come out? I reckon there’s a fair bit to come, especially if Johnson tries to make a comeback. 

Yeah indeed 

[LJS]

1 hour ago, lazyred said:

Try harder. The 2010 equality act has exemptions to protect single sex spaces for women. A recent Scottish Court case means that trans women with a GRC can access these spaces. Thus making it easier to get a GRC makes it easier for trans women, who are mostly still male bodied, to access these spaces. This is the basis for the UK Govt blocking the new law as it undermines the Equality act in the rest of the UK. 

Help me out here. What spaces are you required to show your birth certificate to enter.

And if this is so dangerous why have we not heard of cases from the many parts of the world who already have similar legislation?

[Neil]

Just now, LJS said:

And if this is so dangerous why have we not heard of cases from the many parts of the world who already have similar legislation?

i don't think anyone is claiming it as so dangerous, its just that all women spaces are no longer all women, which can effect a person's feeling of security. there was a campaign for women only wards in hospital, which was mostly about being able to feel safe because of an absence of threats. which proud holder of a GRC  is going to respect that?

[LJS]

50 minutes ago, Neil said:

i don't think anyone is claiming it as so dangerous,

I think you will find plenty of people are claiming exactly that.

50 minutes ago, Neil said:

its just that all women spaces are no longer all women, which can effect a person's feeling of security. there was a campaign for women only wards in hospital, which was mostly about being able to feel safe because of an absence of threats. which proud holder of a GRC  is going to respect that?

...so without a GRC, trans women can already effectively live their life as women and have been able to for years. You can have a passport and driving licence in your "new" name and be treated by the NHS under that name too. Trans women have been using female facilities for years (& trans men using male facilities) and there do not appear to have been any major issues. None of that will change under the new legislation. The notion that there is some monstrous regiment of men just waiting for a certificate so they can mount an invasion of female only spaces is so ludicrous as to be laughable.

There is undoubtedly a societal issue of men being violent towards women which needs addressed. I have no doubt that, in line with any other section of the population there are trans women ( & men) who are violent. I have seen nothing to suggest that making the acquisition of a GRC a bit easier will impact this in any way.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

I think you will find plenty of people are claiming exactly that.

People are stating there's risks not that it's incredibly dangerous. 

It's introducing that risk into places presumed to be free of that risk, which is why it's a big deal to the people affected. 

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

...so without a GRC, trans women can already effectively live their life as women and have been able to for years. You can have a passport and driving licence in your "new" name and be treated by the NHS under that name too. Trans women have been using female facilities for years (& trans men using male facilities) and there do not appear to have been any major issues. None of that will change under the new legislation. The notion that there is some monstrous regiment of men just waiting for a certificate so they can mount an invasion of female only spaces is so ludicrous as to be laughable.

There is undoubtedly a societal issue of men being violent towards women which needs addressed.

If it does it should be addressed rather than use another issue as cover. 

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

I have no doubt that, in line with any other section of the population there are trans women ( & men) who are violent. I have seen nothing to suggest that making the acquisition of a GRC a bit easier will impact this in any way.

The use of grcs as suggested in this law creates lots of new issues which there aren't any easy answers to. 

[steviewevie]

Grermany's sending tanks.

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Grermany's sending tanks.

and Germany.

[lazyred]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

Help me out here. What spaces are you required to show your birth certificate to enter.

And if this is so dangerous why have we not heard of cases from the many parts of the world who already have similar legislation?

I didn't mention danger, I just stated the law and why the new Scottish law has implications for the UK equalities act. Your original comment that you don't need a GRC to access single sex spaces is wrong. 

The Equalities and Human Rights commission has a commentary here 

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-equality-act-says-about-protected-characteristics-sex-and-gender

 

The final paragraph states :

There are circumstances where a lawfully-established separate or single-sex service provider can exclude, modify or limit access to their service for trans people. This is allowed under provisions relating to gender reassignment in the Act.

 

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, lazyred said:

I didn't mention danger, I just stated the law and why the new Scottish law has implications for the UK equalities act. Your original comment that you don't need a GRC to access single sex spaces is wrong. 

The Equalities and Human Rights commission has a commentary here 

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-equality-act-says-about-protected-characteristics-sex-and-gender

 

The final paragraph states :

There are circumstances where a lawfully-established separate or single-sex service provider can exclude, modify or limit access to their service for trans people. This is allowed under provisions relating to gender reassignment in the Act.

 

Also this.

A person does not need a Gender Recognition Certificate to be protected under the characteristic of gender reassignment.

[Crazyfool01]

4 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Grermany's sending tanks.

Hope this makes a difference … the Ukrainians staying with my folks have a tough decision to make … my parents took them on for 1 year and that time ends in may and it’s a nightmare finding accommodation to stay and paying for it . They may go home to the Ukraine as her husband is still there and most of her family too …