news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

It's popular. We're in a very different world to the late 90s.

But still things can only get better, right?

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

It's popular. We're in a very different world to the late 90s.

Yep, but it's still the jack boot of the Govt when there's the annualtrain fare increase 

[Neil]

The treasury spent five grand on a paper shredder, and no one in the treasury thought of shredding the paperwork for that expense. 

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

Katie price story breaking. I'm thinking it's a squirrel to distract from something else, but I'm stumped on the something else. 

[squirrelarmy]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Katie price story breaking. I'm thinking it's a squirrel to distract from something else, but I'm stumped on the something else. 

I’ve had nothing to do with Katie Price 😉

[Neil]

23 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

I’ve had nothing to do with Katie Price 😉

Poor old kstie, her and hers get treated like shit. 

It's a story that could have come out any time, feels like it's a story now for a reason. 

[pink_triangle]

On 2/16/2023 at 4:30 PM, Barry Fish said:

Lancashire polic are making a total mess of the Bulley search...  disgusting the way they released this information about her that doesn't help the search at all.  Victim shaming it feels like.

BBC News - Nicola Bulley family wants end to public speculation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-64665835

I don’t know what they were thinking releasing that information and you think heads will roll. Seeing the coverage it also got me thinking about the media. People go missing on a regular basis, why are the media interested in some and not others?

[cellar]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

I don’t know what they were thinking releasing that information and you think heads will roll. Seeing the coverage it also got me thinking about the media. People go missing on a regular basis, why are the media interested in some and not others?

I thought about this too, maybe the optics - the image presented is that of a devoted mother, mortgage adviser who was working when she suddenly disappeared. In the public eye it's someone who "has their shit together," which creates that very powerful narrative in people's minds. 

The other part I think is how short the timeframe is in which she disappeared - it seemed like she vanished into thin air which obviously creates that mystery element to it that people are drawn to.

It's all very sad for her and for her family, I hope they find some closure soon.

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, cellar said:

I thought about this too, maybe the optics - the image presented is that of a devoted mother, mortgage adviser who was working when she suddenly disappeared. In the public eye it's someone who "has their shit together," which creates that very powerful narrative in people's minds. 

The other part I think is how short the timeframe is in which she disappeared - it seemed like she vanished into thin air which obviously creates that mystery element to it that people are drawn to.

It's all very sad for her and for her family, I hope they find some closure soon.

I do wonder if the media is more likely to get involved if the person is white, middle class and more attractive than the average person. Maybe I’m completely off, but that’s my instinct.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

 People go missing on a regular basis, why are the media interested in some and not others?

There's a reconised white girl phenimonon where pretty white girls get covered like others don't. 

[steviewevie]

A lot of people who go missing often already have mental health problems or are in some sort of crisis. This woman seemingly didn't I suppose, so it was kind of a mystery..but now it seems maybe she did.

I kind of don't pay attention to these sort of news stories, but I know this has been all over the front pages a lot. Weird they can't find the body.

[DeanoL]

22 hours ago, lost said:

Nope momentum was used as a vehicle to enforce a minority opinion on a major party. The problem is most people don't vote in these things so a very active minority can gain control and subvert the party by being instructed how to vote. The issue is obviously the minority opinion when offered to the general public resulted in the worst loss since the 1930's.

Momentum wasn't even formed until after Corbyn was elected leader, by both the membership *and* MPs.

By all means we can say that the Labour part lost its senses in electing Corbyn as leader the first place. But they did. 

[lost]

11 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Momentum wasn't even formed until after Corbyn was elected leader, by both the membership *and* MPs.

By all means we can say that the Labour part lost its senses in electing Corbyn as leader the first place. But they did. 

He was nominated by MP's as an attempt to get all parts of the party involved. The issue was at the same time Ed Sillyband changed the membership rules and allowed anyone to sign up with no checks. Members of the British Communist Party and even Toby Young signed up to vote for Corbyn because he knew the guy was so out of touch with the British people it would damage the labour party him getting the job.

[DeanoL]

22 hours ago, lost said:

Yes but there were other parties/publications at the time. The socialist labour party which published the socialist newspaper that evolved into the socialist worker. This publication Corbyn spent his career writing for and was broadly inline with his views. So we can see what views "his type" would of had then and it was well to the left of the labour party. Corbyn would of chosen the Warsaw pact over Nato. 

And yet, he was elected leader of the Labour party, and certainly wasn't "doing a Starmer" and claiming at any point to be a unity candidate, he's always been pretty clear on his views (except Brexit, natch) and people can't claim they didn't know what they were voting for when electing him leader.

Momentum didn't "steal" the Labour party. The Labour party democratically voted to hand itself over to the far left by electing Corbyn as leader. Momentum followed that, not the other way around.

It's a convenient lie to be able to peddle that Momentum came first and they lied, cheated and stole to get Corbyn elected, and so the Corbyn years were not the fault of the rest of the party, and they were just manipulated into it and we're clearing house now so please forgive us. Unfortunately it's complete bollocks. The party went into the Corbyn project, for good or ill, with eyes open and quite aware of what they were voting for.

Momentum may have kept him there for longer than he would otherwise have lasted but having a movement in the party reflective of the leader's views is hardly surprising.

[DeanoL]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

He was nominated by MP's as an attempt to get all parts of the party involved. The issue was at the same time Ed Sillyband changed the membership rules and allowed anyone to sign up with no checks. Members of the British Communist Party and even Toby Young signed up to vote for Corbyn because he knew the guy was so out of touch with the British people it would damage the labour party him getting the job.

Yeah and that was raised at the time and there was talk of legal challenges and all sorts. None of which was ever acted upon because once the results came out they were so decisively in his favour that everyone acknowledged he would have won regardless, even if every single extra person that signed up between when he was nominated and results day had voted for him and then those votes had been removed, he would *still* have won.

Again, you're trying to rewrite history because you don't like what happened. Unfortunately facts get in the way.

Edited February 18, 2023 by DeanoL

[lost]

4 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Yeah and that was raised at the time and there was talk of legal challenges and all sorts. None of which was ever acted upon because once the results came out they were so decisively in his favour that everyone acknowledged he would have won regardless, even if every single extra person that signed up between when he was nominated and results day had voted for him and then those votes had been removed, he would *still* have won.

Again, you're trying to rewrite history because you don't like what happened. Unfortunately facts get in the way.

I'm saying someone in the labour had the smarts to realise what would happen if the rules Ed removed didn't exist. Ed removed the rules and the party ended up on the same list as the BNP and if Corbyn had stayed would of probably joined the British union of Fascists on the banned list. There is a reason parties vet who can join up because people at the extremes of politics both left and right tend to be more political active but also more out of touch with the general public, 85% of whom put themselves between the centre left and centre right.

[steviewevie]

..and love him or loathe him, corbyn helped change the conversation. people now see austerity as going too far, the need for a bigger state, taxes on wealth, and that a lot in those 17/19 manifestos we're pretty bloody good. Even Johnson could see this with all his levelling up and taxes to pay for health care etc. Now if Starmer says anything other than nationalise the lot he's seen as right wing.

[steviewevie]

Rishi says War!

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

..and love him or loathe him, corbyn helped change the conversation. people now see austerity as going too far, the need for a bigger state, taxes on wealth, and that a lot in those 17/19 manifestos we're pretty bloody good. Even Johnson could see this with all his levelling up and taxes to pay for health care etc. Now if Starmer says anything other than nationalise the lot he's seen as right wing.

Red Ed paved the way for Corbs 😉

[steviewevie]

Rotherham.

 

[Crazyfool01]

racist tory flag waving britain 

[Zoo Music Girl]

I think it was Stevie who recommended the Putin vs the West doc on the Beeb. Have just finished it and thought it was really good, gave a lot of extra context to the whole run-up to war. I find all the backroom negotiating stuff fascinating.

Fuck knows where they go from here, though.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I think it was Stevie who recommended the Putin vs the West doc on the Beeb. Have just finished it and thought it was really good, gave a lot of extra context to the whole run-up to war. I find all the backroom negotiating stuff fascinating.

Fuck knows where they go from here, though.

Don't think putin has anywhere to go, he's finished when the war is over. 

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Neil said:

Don't think putin has anywhere to go, he's finished when the war is over. 

To The Hague.