news & politics:discussion

[Nobody Interesting]

Labour know exactly what the media would do if there was any hint of rejoining so to 'slip up' and say this when they knew film crews were around is one of several things:

1) Deliberate to see what public opinion is
2) Really really stupid and shows a lack of common sense
3) Lists are better in odd numbers

I know which one I would opt for

[Kurosagi]

In the space of less than a week he's gone from me thinking "bloody hell, that's brave, well done you sir" to "oh you dithering twat, can someone else do your job".

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

It's literally his job to understand what the media will do when he discusses policy, that's why many of us were surprised (and praised him) when he did so.

He does understand what the media will do hence why he says these kind of things and why Labour’s Brexit stance is what it is.

I honestly don’t know how people can’t see it. This week Labour came out with a pro-EU policy, the media jumped on it and claimed Labour will turn back Brexit so of course Starmer has to come out and say there isn’t a case for going back.  The reasoning for it has literally played out this week. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Labour know exactly what the media would do if there was any hint of rejoining so to 'slip up' and say this when they knew film crews were around is one of several things:

1) Deliberate to see what public opinion is
2) Really really stupid and shows a lack of common sense
3) Lists are better in odd numbers

I know which one I would opt for

In a way his comments at the Forum last weekend were a trap for the Tories as when he says we won’t diverge from EU standards he’s talking about workers rights. So if/when they Tories come out and criticise those comments Labour can turn round and say that the Tories want to downgrade workers rights. 

[Crazyfool01]

There's absolutely no chance that's a slip up ... hes trained not to slip up ffs ... 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

He does understand what the media will do hence why he says these kind of things and why Labour’s Brexit stance is what it is.

I honestly don’t know how people can’t see it. This week Labour came out with a pro-EU policy, the media jumped on it and claimed Labour will turn back Brexit so of course Starmer has to come out and say there isn’t a case for going back.  The reasoning for it has literally played out this week. 

he said he doesn't want to diverge from EU rules...and then a few days they're panicing and ruling out any dynamic alignment.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

In a way his comments at the Forum last weekend were a trap for the Tories as when he says we won’t diverge from EU standards he’s talking about workers rights. So if/when they Tories come out and criticise those comments Labour can turn round and say that the Tories want to downgrade workers rights. 

The Tories have already said they want to scrap the EU work time directive so it is no secret............... so cannot be  atrap on that unless Starmer does not know they want to scrap it.

[Kurosagi]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

This week Labour came out with a pro-EU policy, the media jumped on it and claimed Labour will turn back Brexit so of course Starmer has to come out and say there isn’t a case for going back.

At the risk of repeating myself, it's literally his job to predict how the media will react. Are you really trying to argue the reaction was a surprise to him? I hope not.

[Guest]

Just now, Kurosagi said:

At the risk of repeating myself, it's literally his job to predict how the media will react. Are you really trying to argue the reaction was a surprise to him? I hope not.

I’m at risk of repeating myself too, he does predict the media so that’s why he doesn’t come out with stronger pro-EU polices. 

 

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

The Tories have already said they want to scrap the EU work time directive so it is no secret............... so cannot be  atrap on that unless Starmer does not know they want to scrap it.

It’s still worthwhile to bring it into the foreground.

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

he said he doesn't want to diverge from EU rules...and then a few days they're panicing and ruling out any dynamic alignment.

How are they panicking?

[Guest]

It’s ultimately why Labour try not to say anything on Brexit. They can’t say they want to head towards rejoin as they get accused of betraying the beloved Brexit and they can’t say they won’t rejoin as the Rejoin crowd start screaming.

Best thing for them to do is saying nothing and slide a few points into the manifesto. 

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

 

Best thing for them to do is saying nothing and slide a few points into the manifesto. 

Epic fail on that one then

Edited September 22, 2023 by Nobody Interesting

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Epic fail on that one then

Kinda proves my point. They are damned whatever they do. 

[steviewevie]

I think the point is, do one or the other,,,otherwise you just look undecided and get accused of flip flopping or whatever. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think the point is, do one or the other,,,otherwise you just look undecided and get accused of flip flopping or whatever. 

It’s been Labour policy for ages that we won’t diverge from EU standards and it’s been policy for ages that we won’t rejoin.  So they’re doing what you ask. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s been Labour policy for ages that we won’t diverge from EU standards and it’s been policy for ages that we won’t rejoin.  So they’re doing what you ask. 

ok, not sure why they had to rush in and rule out dynamic alignment, kind of limits how close a deal we could ever have with EU.

(maybe he's lying)

[steviewevie]

Ukraine getting long range missiles as well as more $$$ from US, Russia upping military spending, Ukraine targeting Russian military targets in Crimea...where is it heading?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok, not sure why they had to rush in and rule out dynamic alignment, kind of limits how close a deal we could ever have with EU.

(maybe he's lying)

I don’t mean to be a twat but where does he rule out dynamic alignment? He doesn’t in that Sky clip. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Ozanne

[cellar]

Am I missing something on this Starmer thing? Saying you don't want to diverge from EU standards doesn't mean saying you want to reverse Brexit, it's just saying you know there are things you want to stay aligned with there.

I don't see this as flip flopping, just clarifying something that was said to tackle the inevitable media/Tory response to anything they could jump on.

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, cellar said:

Am I missing something on this Starmer thing? Saying you don't want to diverge from EU standards doesn't mean saying you want to reverse Brexit, it's just saying you know there are things you want to stay aligned with there.

I don't see this as flip flopping, just clarifying something that was said to tackle the inevitable media/Tory response to anything they could jump on.

To normal sensible intelligent people it all make sense.

To many Brexiteers and the right wing media it means he will rejoin the EU cos some rich bloke in a suit will tell them that is what he means.

All too muich of the electorate is very easy to fool.

[Guest]

This is the best I could find on dynamic alignment which reads as him ruling out rejoining and the SM. Labour say that any alignment towards the EU such as for veterinarian standards would have to be approved by Parliament so that covers the ‘rule takers’ bit as we would be making our own rules in Parliament. 
 

I can’t see where Starmer categorically goes back on what he said in that policy briefing. 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don’t mean to be a twat but where does he rule out dynamic alignment? He doesn’t in that Sky clip. 

you're not being a twat, I actually struggled to find anything official...it is something that Sam Coates posted...

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

This is the best I could find on dynamic alignment which reads as him ruling out rejoining and the SM. Labour say that any alignment towards the EU such as for veterinarian standards would have to be approved by Parliament so that covers the ‘rule takers’ bit as we would be making our own rules in Parliament. 
 

I can’t see where Starmer categorically goes back on what he said in that policy briefing. 

oh, got there before me

[steviewevie]

ok...maybe I was being a bit harsh on starmer...I just think they should be careful ruling too many things out...because they may have to do them at some point anyway...

[zahidf]

Oh man.. total lack of self respect

 

 

 

 

[zahidf]

Just now, steviewevie said:

ok...maybe I was being a bit harsh on starmer...I just think they should be careful ruling too many things out...because they may have to do them at some point anyway...

2 years in

 

"After the terrible state the Tories have left the country in, I have no choice but to do xxx to fix their mistakes"