news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Midweek Israel were bombing Gaza where civilians had no means of escape 

Yeah well that probably doesn't actually break international law if Israel can prove they were targeting Hamas. The siege probably does though.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Yeah well that probably doesn't actually break international law if Israel can prove they were targeting Hamas. The siege probably does though.

Semantics really . Flattening huge areas of civilian land and causing mass civilian casualties seems pretty much like it’s not targeted , to me anyway. Maybe they’ll get  away with it under some clause but it’s appalling . And was also appalling when Russia invaded Ukraine and did similar 

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Israel will always win on that score. More deaths thanks to the genocide.

Israel normally likes to get ten times more 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Nearly everyone here wants a change in govt . That doesn’t mean that people can’t question and talk about things they don’t like about the opposition. 

I don’t think that’s the case, your double standards (which has been called out by 3 different people) is pretty telling. 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I don’t think that’s the case, your double standards (which has been called out by 3 different people) is pretty telling. 

Excuse me ? 

[Neil]

Skippy thinks he's being progressive and cool by blaming everything on Israel, this article will put him straight that he's neither 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/15/victim-blaming-is-a-crime-to-so-many-progressives-except-when-it-comes-to-jews?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

[Crazyfool01]

I think only maybe @mattiloy might not want a change in govt because he doesn’t feel it would change things … @Ozanne please name the others 

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Semantics really . Flattening huge areas of civilian land and causing mass civilian casualties seems pretty much like it’s not targeted , to me anyway. Maybe they’ll get  away with it under some clause but it’s appalling . And was also appalling when Russia invaded Ukraine and did similar 

Just saying what often happens with war crimes...purposely targeting civilians is a war crime, civilians dying because caught up in war isn't necessarily a war crime.

Anyway, it was only midweek when they were still finding villages/kibbutz in Israel full of dead families, and people were arguing how many dead babies there were and wanting to see photographic evidence of beheaded babies. 

 

[steviewevie]

 

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Just saying what often happens with war crimes...purposely targeting civilians is a war crime, civilians dying because caught up in war isn't necessarily a war crime.

Anyway, it was only midweek when they were still finding villages/kibbutz in Israel full of dead families, and people were arguing how many dead babies there were and wanting to see photographic evidence of beheaded babies. 

 

I’ll repeat the death on all sides is appalling. . One doesn’t justify the other . Hamas share equal blame . At the moment Israel are preparing for a land invasion where the civilian population has no escape and the food and water , oil and electric has been shutoff to an entire population . This needs to be stopped and not backed by anyone and called as it is ( a war crime ) . I just hope the deadline being pushed back means there’s some strong negotiations going on behind the scenes rather than it being delayed because Israel are manoeuvring the weapons 

[Neil]

20 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I think only maybe @mattiloy might not want a change in govt because

he's quite happy with the bankers in charge.

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Restraint … Israel are lining up to invade ffs and he knows this 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I’ll repeat the death on all sides is appalling. . One doesn’t justify the other . Hamas share equal blame . At the moment Israel are preparing for a land invasion where the civilian population has no escape and the food and water , oil and electric has been shutoff to an entire population . This needs to be stopped and not backed by anyone and called as it is ( a war crime ) . I just hope the deadline being pushed back means there’s some strong negotiations going on behind the scenes rather than it being delayed because Israel are manoeuvring the weapons 

Not sure an invasion is a war crime? They were attacked, and this is the response. Not saying there haven't been war crimes committed, there obviously have. But what Israel is doing is a response to the Hamas attacks last week.

But, I don't know what the plan is...they just running off emotions at moment and not thinking what they're doing? Are they really going to try take over governance of Gaza? They're struggling to govern Israel at moment. What if kicks off more in West Bank and with Hezbollah? they won't be able to keep going on all fronts. Hamas have been preparing for this. This could actually go on for a long time. And what was Hamas plan? They want Israel to invade?

Edited October 15, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Restraint … Israel are lining up to invade ffs and he knows this 

yeah, well he can ask them to show restraint, but he can't stop them. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Restraint … Israel are lining up to invade ffs and he knows this 

"invade" is a strange concept for land Israel already controls.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

"invade" is a strange concept for land Israel already controls.

Yeah fair point 

[steviewevie]

Watching Kuenssberg Sunday programme thingy but with Victoria Derbyshire...talking to people from Israel and Palestine...the raw anger fully on display...

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Nearly everyone here wants a change in govt . That doesn’t mean that people can’t question and talk about things they don’t like about the opposition. 

I think it’s great we live in a country where we can criticise the country and the opposition, not everyone is so lucky. The question goes back however if you’re criticising what he is saying, what should he say that can make a difference and not split the party, or adversely impact on their electoral chances? This is in the world as it is, not the one you would like it to be.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...talking to people from Israel and Palestine...the raw anger fully on display...

not surprising when someone's been shooting up their families.

[Neil]

i can't carry a cup of coffee cos i need my good hand/arm for walking (with my stick) or to hold the wall/banister/etc. so i've not been able to get my wife a morning cup of coffee since before i was in hospital. last week i ordered the bits so i could do that (travel cups with screw lids + a jar holder so i can screw the lids on), and much to my disappointment  this morning she got herself a coffee before i woke up.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Neil

[Crazyfool01]

16 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it’s great we live in a country where we can criticise the country and the opposition, not everyone is so lucky. The question goes back however if you’re criticising what he is saying, what should he say that can make a difference and not split the party, or adversely impact on their electoral chances? This is in the world as it is, not the one you would like it to be.

If he can’t make a difference , which as you say is likely , he needs to make the call that shows morals and yeah maybe it loses him votes . Maybe calling out war crimes as in Ukraine isn’t as unpopular as you think .  This is 2 million people with bombs reigning down on them . 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

If he can’t make a difference , which as you say is likely , he needs to make the call that shows morals and yeah maybe it loses him votes . Maybe calling out war crimes as in Ukraine isn’t as unpopular as you think .  This is 2 million people with bombs reigning down on them . 

Why aren’t you demanding this of the PM?

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

  This is 2 million people with bombs reigning down on them . 

or 10 million people surrounded by people who'd happily slit their throats.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Ozanne said:

Why aren’t you demanding this of the PM?

At risk of repeating myself … I expect this sh*t from the Tory’s not the Labour Party 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

or 10 million people surrounded by people who'd happily slit their throats.

Again I’ll repeat hamas are equally responsible and justification for killing any civilians is 0 .