news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Neil said:

yeah, cos another leader will recover their polling. not! the country is sick to death of tories.

Let them eat each other alive. 

[cellar]

39 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

There won’t be any apologies from the left admitting that they were wrong. 

Are apologies from the left more important to you than saving lives?

I actually thought you were on the left, to be honest. Blue Labour eh.

[Neil]

just read on reddit that there was a big noisy protest outside the BBC offices today, protesting about the biased reporting, BBC Bristol mostly does natural history stuff , it doesn't set news guidelines.

[philipsteak]

14 hours ago, Ozanne said:

 Hunt is going. 

He should be made to stand.

After all they've gone through this generation deserve their 'Portillo moment'. Only seems fair.

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, philipsteak said:

He should be made to stand.

After all they've gone through this generation deserve their 'Portillo moment'. Only seems fair.

Gove is going to be that moment instead.

[pink_triangle]

10 hours ago, cellar said:

Are apologies from the left more important to you than saving lives?

I actually thought you were on the left, to be honest. Blue Labour eh.

I’m not sure apologies, but I do believe but should be called out as it’s the kind of behaviour the left would be calling the right out for doing the same. 
 

So when it kicked off we had people on the left talking about the need for independent verification, then a period of no balance where only evidence that contradicted the Israel view was promoted, then an independent agency (what they were initially asking for) comes out with a statement, they completely ignore it when we all know they would be all over it if it said the opposite.

We still have the previous labour leader stating it was Israel on twitter with no evidence to back this up. This is Trump/Trump supporter behaviour and should be called out as such. Certainly wouldn’t call everyone on the left as the same, but there seems to be a significant amount.

 

[cellar]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

I’m not sure apologies, but I do believe but should be called out as it’s the kind of behaviour the left would be calling the right out for doing the same. 
 

So when it kicked off we had people on the left talking about the need for independent verification, then a period of no balance where only evidence that contradicted the Israel view was promoted, then an independent agency (what they were initially asking for) comes out with a statement, they completely ignore it when we all know they would be all over it if it said the opposite.

We still have the previous labour leader stating it was Israel on twitter with no evidence to back this up. This is Trump/Trump supporter behaviour and should be called out as such. Certainly wouldn’t call everyone on the left as the same, but there seems to be a significant amount.

 

The whole thing feels in incredibly bad taste, to be honest. Political point scoring everywhere, and I know I'm not blameless in that. But respectfully I'm done talking about it.

[steviewevie]

[pink_triangle]

39 minutes ago, cellar said:

The whole thing feels in incredibly bad taste, to be honest. Political point scoring everywhere, and I know I'm not blameless in that. But respectfully I'm done talking about it.

I see it differently, there is nothing political point scoring about following the evidence and being open to evidence that doesn’t support your view.

My criticism is not aimed at people on here, but those people with profile who have the ability to influence others. There have been great political minds on the left, but we the likes of Corbyn and Owen Jones are not in that category. If we call out fake  news and conspiracy theory thinking on the right, we must also on the left.

[SheffJeff]

14 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

I know everyone will think I'm a conspiracy nut but the author of this article writes for the Israeli Times so I can't help think it might be a little biased in the same way I'd think an article written by a journalist from the 'Palestine Times' claiming the Israelies did it needed to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[SheffJeff]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

I also struggle to believe that a journalist nobody's ever heard of who has 92 followers on twitter writing for a news outlet nobodies ever heard of has access to this type of information when the rest of the western media and governments doesn't.  There's far too much misinformation on all sides.

[Neil]

Israel is now calling hamas "hamas isis"

Feels like a way of getting more freedom for extreme action .

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

I also struggle to believe that a journalist nobody's ever heard of who has 92 followers on twitter writing for a news outlet nobodies ever heard of has access to this type of information when the rest of the western media and governments doesn't.  There's far too much misinformation on all sides.

fair enough...there really is.

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, cellar said:

The whole thing feels in incredibly bad taste, to be honest. Political point scoring everywhere, and I know I'm not blameless in that. But respectfully I'm done talking about it.

Don't forget parts of the left were celebrating the original Hamas incursion just after it happened. They went quiet once the scale of the atrocities were revealed. They need to be called out on it. 

Lots of people sympathetic to Isreal are calling for restraint and to allow aid in and civilians out and move to a 2 state peace. How many marchers are chanting free the hostages? 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I see it differently, there is nothing political point scoring about following the evidence and being open to evidence that doesn’t support your view.

My criticism is not aimed at people on here, but those people with profile who have the ability to influence others. There have been great political minds on the left, but we the likes of Corbyn and Owen Jones are not in that category. If we call out fake  news and conspiracy theory thinking on the right, we must also on the left.

I agree, I think it's perfectly sensible to wait for more information to come out before deciding who was at fault especially when the situation is so sensitive. When you look at Corbyn's response it does show a level of bias from him and it's crazy to think he was the leader of the Labour Party and fairly close to being PM at one point.

[lazyred]

25 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

I know everyone will think I'm a conspiracy nut but the author of this article writes for the Israeli Times so I can't help think it might be a little biased in the same way I'd think an article written by a journalist from the 'Palestine Times' claiming the Israelies did it needed to be taken with a pinch of salt.

The only analysis that went against the Isreali version was the one promoted by channel 4/Mehdi Hassan That analysis involved one of the militant groups in gaza.

It does look like a misfired rocket from within Gaza. It was an accident like the Isreali strike a few days ago on the church sheltering Christians killing 17. 

You can't fight wars without innocent victims. 

[cellar]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

I see it differently, there is nothing political point scoring about following the evidence and being open to evidence that doesn’t support your view.

My criticism is not aimed at people on here, but those people with profile who have the ability to influence others. There have been great political minds on the left, but we the likes of Corbyn and Owen Jones are not in that category. If we call out fake  news and conspiracy theory thinking on the right, we must also on the left.

Of course there is political point scoring. It's happening here in this thread.

[Crazyfool01]

and yet Nandy still won't answer about the shutting off of water ? Victoria Derbyshire is a great interviewer and a breath of fresh air . fantastic news on the released hostages , the only way the hostages will get released is through negotiation . And a cease to the appalling violence from both sides , decapitation or babies dying from ventilators having to be shut off is frankly horrific . As for the media im still not 100% convinced but would say im human and may well have taken some influence from social media . can't honestly blame anyone for that tbh that's how our lives work and also if not the media we take influences from friends and family 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

 

 

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, Crazyfool01 said:

and yet Nandy still won't answer about the shutting off of water ? Victoria Derbyshire is a great interviewer and a breath of fresh air . fantastic news on the released hostages , the only way the hostages will get released is through negotiation . And a cease to the appalling violence from both sides , decapitation or babies dying from ventilators having to be shut off is frankly horrific . As for the media im still not 100% convinced but would say im human and may well have taken some influence from social media . can't honestly blame anyone for that tbh that's how our lives work and also if not the media we take influences from friends and family 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe watch the full interview on iplayer. Lisa Nandy says right at the start water should be reconnected and aid let in. She also says power is needed and references the hospital incubators and the water supply as reason for this. On fuel she says it is required for the water supply and discussions are ongoing to allow fuel in that can be controlled by the UN and not diverted to hamas.

The arguement is whether cuting water and fuel is a war crime. I suppose the justification is whether supplying it helps Hamas fight on. Its hard to argue about water supplies but the pumps need power and fuel that might be used by Hamas. Anyway there are the discussions so hopefully the water and power will be back again soon.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Maybe watch the full interview on iplayer. Lisa Nandy says right at the start water should be reconnected and aid let in. She also says power is needed and references the hospital incubators and the water supply as reason for this. On fuel she says it is required for the water supply and discussions are ongoing to allow fuel in that can be controlled by the UN and not diverted to hamas.

The arguement is whether cuting water and fuel is a war crime. I suppose the justification is whether supplying it helps Hamas fight on. Its hard to argue about water supplies but the pumps need power and fuel that might be used by Hamas. Anyway there are the discussions so hopefully the water and power will be back again soon.

ok so missed that ... not quite sure why she's unable to answer the repeated questions then if she's said it already , hopefully yes fuel will be allowed soon as that might well help some of the remaining hostages and yes maybe and probably Hamas too . some aid in today which is also good , but the concern now is forcing the remainder of the population to move by leaflet drop or designating them terrorists 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Crazyfool01 said:

and yet Nandy still won't answer about the shutting off of water ? Victoria Derbyshire is a great interviewer and a breath of fresh air . fantastic news on the released hostages , the only way the hostages will get released is through negotiation . And a cease to the appalling violence from both sides , decapitation or babies dying from ventilators having to be shut off is frankly horrific . As for the media im still not 100% convinced but would say im human and may well have taken some influence from social media . can't honestly blame anyone for that tbh that's how our lives work and also if not the media we take influences from friends and family 

 

 

 

 

 

is Nandy an expert in international law, or a person nominated to lay charges at anyone breaking it?

me, i wouldn't look to Nandy for anything sensible, her time at the forefront of Labour has been consistently unimpressive.

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Neil

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Neil said:

is Nandy an expert in international law, or a person nominated to lay charges at anyone breaking it?

me, i wouldn't look to Nandy for anything sensible, he time at the forefront of Labour has been consistently unimpressive.

 

probably not but I guess needs to be briefed if she's doing the media run , not quite sure how much this happens or doesn't with opposition I presume it does 

[steviewevie]

Kind of positive that Biden keeps mentioning two state solution...shame Trump will replace him in just over a year...