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news & politics:discussion

zahidf

By zahidf
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Kurosagi
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Don't post on here often, but read it every day. Can't sit by and watch @Ozanne getting picked on for doing little other than make a polite 'point of order' request without my saying something. F

maelzoid
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Obviously horrible news. But I think pointing the finger at Rayner is not only unfair to her, but also serves to help silence critics of the Tories. Don't forget that over the years, BJ's words h

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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I mean...eventually there will have to be negotiations...some sort of peace summit...but on who's terms? Russia wants at least part of Ukraine, Ukraine wants them driven out totally, including Crimea. Western govts may become tired of supporting Ukraine, especially if Republicans win presidency in 2024...but at moment looks like we're in it for the long haul and the thinking that Russia must be defeated, for Ukraine's sake, for europe's sake, and also to send a message to China that any invasion of Taiwan wouldn't be a piece of cake either.

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25 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I mean...eventually there will have to be negotiations...some sort of peace summit...but on who's terms? Russia wants at least part of Ukraine, Ukraine wants them driven out totally, including Crimea. Western govts may become tired of supporting Ukraine, especially if Republicans win presidency in 2024...but at moment looks like we're in it for the long haul and the thinking that Russia must be defeated, for Ukraine's sake, for europe's sake, and also to send a message to China that any invasion of Taiwan wouldn't be a piece of cake either.

It’s an interesting discussion tbf. Should we have negotiated peace with Hitler in a peace summit? Clearly the answer was and should have been no because they were the aggressor and clearly in the wrong so shouldn’t have had the chance to have anything on their terms. So in those regards we should do the same to Putin?

Also take the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1, we ‘negotiated’ a peace yet that led directly and indirectly into WW2.

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s an interesting discussion tbf. Should we have negotiated peace with Hitler in a peace summit? Clearly the answer was and should have been no because they were the aggressor and clearly in the wrong so shouldn’t have had the chance to have anything on their terms. So in those regards we should do the same to Putin?

Also take the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1, we ‘negotiated’ a peace yet that led directly and indirectly into WW2.

yeah, I guess though this war could just get bogged down in a stalemate with a front line that moves a bit, but not much, and bodies keep piling up..like WW1. I don't know, it's a nightmare really. Best outcome is Ukraine win, Putin falls and is replaced with super nice pro western liberal democrat who wants peace for all mankind and everyone joins EU and Nato and bombs the fuck out of China.

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1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, I guess though this war could just get bogged down in a stalemate with a front line that moves a bit, but not much, and bodies keep piling up..like WW1. I don't know, it's a nightmare really. Best outcome is Ukraine win, Putin falls and is replaced with super nice pro western liberal democrat who wants peace for all mankind and everyone joins EU and Nato and bombs the fuck out of China.

That is a fair point about the war dragging on but what happens if in a peace summit Russia demand certain territory (say the Donbas), should we force Ukraine to give to them? That wouldn’t be fair as Russia were the aggressors, broke international law and are essentially being rewarded. If that happened that would in theory show any other aggressor that they can do the same.

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That is a fair point about the war dragging on but what happens if in a peace summit Russia demand certain territory (say the Donbas), should we force Ukraine to give to them? That wouldn’t be fair as Russia were the aggressors, broke international law and are essentially being rewarded. If that happened that would in theory show any other aggressor that they can do the same.

Yeah difficult to see how it ends at this point...either Russia overcomes Ukraine totally which I can't see holding ever, or Russia are driven out and someone kills Putin and then Russia splits and descends into chaos.

You should watch the Putin Vs West doc in BBC...kind of mad how all these geo political things are driven by a few humans and how they scheme or otherwise.

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Neil Grand Master

Neil

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17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yes..but there is a limit...kind of expensive.. although arms industry must be doing pretty well...

It's a good way of using munitions before they go out of date. Makes them essentially free. Cos the cost of replacing them is already budgeted. 

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Neil Grand Master

Neil

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2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

wasn't Brown very popular and then he hesitated on holding an election which ended up being a bad miscalculation...

yeah, that's what did foir him, but played out over many weeks.

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