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news & politics:discussion

zahidf

By zahidf
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10 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

I’ve been trying hard recently to look at things objectively and at least ask myself questions about the other side of the coin. I don’t usually change my mind (especially when it comes to the Conservatives) but it’s an interesting exercise!

So how about this as an alternative take: Providing MPs are carrying out their duties effectively, taking extra money from private companies (as opposed to wanting more money from their MP salary) is totally unrelated to staff pay rises in the NHS. Would it be morally questionable for an NHS Doctor to take an extra job as a consultant where he earns significantly more money for a day a month?

So it’s ok for Tory MPs to ask for £1k an hour but not ok for Drs to have a £19 an hour pay rise?

MPs get enough money as it is and should be focussed on their constituents not on consultancy work which will line their pockets further when they aren’t an MP anymore. If an MP is a Dr/lawyer then they should be able to practice to enable them to keep their license. 
 

I wonder if there would be this level of understanding here if the MPs in that video were Labour?

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Justiceforcedave
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3 minutes ago, cellar said:

Lots of MPs have 2nd jobs - Tories make a lot more than any other MPs (22 out of 24 of the top earners are Tories). But I'm not sure if the problem is with the amount of time they're spending doing these 2nd jobs, or the amount of money they get.

I guess as has been said, seeing how much these guys can charge as a day rate and still pretend to understand the struggles of the country is pretty rubbish. But if they are being offered this money, as was said above, who wouldn't take £10k just for showing up to a day? And why shouldn't they?

I think the amount of hours they dedicate to the other role is probably more important, but then, the ones spending more hours doing other things I imagine would be where they hold other positions in local councils, or doctors that are still practicing or whatever. Maybe there should be rules about only being able to hold 1 office at a time (regional or local), but I don't think we want to stop doctors from practicing.

That isn't second jobs. It's selling the first job, difficult to legislate against all second jobs because some require ongoing participation to keep up registrations, etc.

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Justiceforcedave Experienced

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2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

So it’s ok for Tory MPs to ask for £1k an hour but not ok for Drs to have a £19 an hour pay rise?

That’s not what I’ve said. I was just pointing out they’re different pots of money. The Tory MPs aren’t taking 1k from the public pot (which Drs pay rises would come from) and no one is stopping NHS DRs from earning money outside the NHS.

Look, the whole thing is morally repugnant, and my point above ignores the fact that the MPs often get offered these positions BECAUSE they are in government, and potentially because the ‘employers’ are hoping to buy influence.
 

I’m just saying it’s good sometimes to question why you (the royal you) feel a certain way and make sure it’s logical and not just Conservatives = bad, Labour = good. More often than not you’ll find it reaffirms what you first thought… but always good to ask the question.

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42 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

So it’s ok for Tory MPs to ask for £1k an hour but not ok for Drs to have a £19 an hour pay rise?

MPs get enough money as it is and should be focussed on their constituents not on consultancy work which will line their pockets further when they aren’t an MP anymore. If an MP is a Dr/lawyer then they should be able to practice to enable them to keep their license. 
 

I wonder if there would be this level of understanding here if the MPs in that video were Labour?

It's not "understanding," it's just trying to have a decent discussion about it. I think my general position is that second jobs shouldn't cause conflicts of interest and shouldn't detract from a person's ability to carry out their role as an MP. 

The amount of money they get for those things is obviously going to create a certain set of optics, but if a private business is willing to pay them that... I think that's up to the business. Theresa May did some talks for JP Morgan (in America) that cost a bomb, and probably just because it seems cool for them to say to their staff "we have an ex-PM from the UK doing a talk." If they want to throw their money away like that, it's theirs to throw away I suppose.

The "right" thing to do (in my opinion) would be for MPs to do these second jobs and donate the money to some sort of charity, particularly charities within their constituencies. I believe some MPs do this already.

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2 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

That’s not what I’ve said. I was just pointing out they’re different pots of money. The Tory MPs aren’t taking 1k from the public pot (which Drs pay rises would come from) and no one is stopping NHS DRs from earning money outside the NHS.

Look, the whole thing is morally repugnant, and my point above ignores the fact that the MPs often get offered these positions BECAUSE they are in government, and potentially because the ‘employers’ are hoping to buy influence.
 

I’m just saying it’s good sometimes to question why you (the royal you) feel a certain way and make sure it’s logical and not just Conservatives = bad, Labour = good. More often than not you’ll find it reaffirms what you first thought… but always good to ask the question.

NHS Drs don’t have the time or energy I would imagine to do another job. They just want to help their patients and get paid fairly for it. Yet Tory MPs say they are being greedy yet they have no issues taking these 2nd jobs. 
 

I think the amount of non-Tory MPs that do consultancy work is very low so yeah it’s because the Tories are in government which means there more examples of and means it should be taken more seriously.

As I say Sunak made the effort to point out he would ensure his government act with integrity so he should act now if he really means it. 

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23 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Sunak has promised backbenchers that he'll change stop the fucking boats bill to make it harder for courts to block deportations.

Bless.

I was told he got that sorted already though?

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