news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

22 minutes ago, Neil said:

When Labour is in power which happens if you don't scare the horses with unsupportable views.

It didn’t happen in 13 years in power and is besides a popular policy.

20 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Most of the public are scared by rocking the boat too much

Brexit?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

questionable how much they can borrow too.

There is that too plus if Labour do borrow then the press will jump on them and start claiming they are being irresponsible with public money. 

[mattiloy]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

questionable how much they can borrow too.

Tax.

The government says, look folks, we’re going to nationalise the energy companies, it means everybody’s tax bill goes up a bit now. But after that it means that everybody gets cost price energy forever. How about it?

Yes please government.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

It didn’t happen in 13 years in power and is besides a popular policy.

Not as popular then, as it is right now.and fixing the sewerage outflows isn't practically possible 

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

Brexit?

The public supported a lesser change than we're getting.

[steviewevie]

Just now, mattiloy said:

Tax.

The government says, look folks, we’re going to nationalise the energy companies, it means everybody’s tax bill goes up a bit now. But after that it means that everybody gets cost price energy forever. How about it?

Yes please government.

yes, tax...but the plan was to borrow for the green investment thingy. 

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Tax.

The government says, look folks, we’re going to nationalise the energy companies, it means everybody’s tax bill goes up a bit now. But after that it means that everybody gets cost price energy forever. How about it?

Yes please government.

So why did we pay market prices when the enrrgy companies were nationalised before. They were required to operate at cost plus 2per cent

[mattiloy]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, tax...but the plan was to borrow for the green investment thingy. 

Right now you could tax to fund renationalisation and cut energy bills immediately, wait for wholesale energy prices to fall, use monopoly power to keep bills lower than they would have been under privatisation but make a margin, use the profits to fund investment in Green energy.

[mattiloy]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

So why did we pay market prices when the enrrgy companies were nationalised before. They were required to operate at cost plus 2per cent

A 2 percent margin is not market price and as above, presumably was used to fund investment in infrastructure.

Even if not, the profits were going back to the treasury, reducing your tax bill.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

A 2 percent margin is not market price and as above, presumably was used to fund investment in infrastructure.

Even if not, the profits were going back to the treasury, reducing your tax bill.

I typed and meant to say why didn't we pay cost price previously.and if we need to pay more for investments,dont promise cost price.

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Right now you could tax to fund renationalisation and cut energy bills immediately, wait for wholesale energy prices to fall, use monopoly power to keep bills lower than they would have been under privatisation but make a margin, use the profits to fund investment in Green energy.

simple. Text that to Starmer.

[Crazyfool01]

we've spent months and years over the pandemic hammering the tory policies , its not wrong to question some of the Labour ones too , they arent untouchable , most if not all on here will actually vote in a way that will hopefully get Labour elected .... but bloody hell their policies are leaning more and more right and I question that they will roll back on that stuff if they get elected . 

[steviewevie]

17 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

we've spent months and years over the pandemic hammering the tory policies , its not wrong to question some of the Labour ones too , they arent untouchable , most if not all on here will actually vote in a way that will hopefully get Labour elected .... but bloody hell their policies are leaning more and more right and I question that they will roll back on that stuff if they get elected . 

what policies? 

[steviewevie]

We don't really know many labour policies yet do we?...they did come out with the energy company windfall tax thing which govt ended up doing, they said they were going to do something on child care...and then the govt did something on child care. They have their missions or visions or whatever, which are both obvious (make streets safe, make NHS better etc), and ambitious (highest growth in G7)...but there aren't really any actual policies to go along with it...and why should there be, still 18 months away from an election. They do have that green investment thing which I guess is trying to mirror what Biden is doing, they said they would nationalise the railways but we'll see. But I think what is pissing people off is when they call out the govt's shit policies, but don't say what they'd do differently (e.g. stop the boats)...but again I think this is still fair enough at this stage. But it's when the manifesto comes out, that's when questions will be asked...and if they don't nationalise everything and make min wage £20/hr and scrap the lords and the monarchy and private schools and eat the rich then they will no doubt get called out as tory lite centrist neolib fascist paedos.

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

what policies? 

ok maybe policies is the wrong word .... maybe visuals is better , the slow privatisation of the NHS , flag shagging , not standing behind people striking .  not being clear on bringing things back into public ownership .

[Crazyfool01]

a few here too 

 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

ok maybe policies is the wrong word .... maybe visuals is better , the slow privatisation of the NHS , flag shagging , not standing behind people striking .  not being clear on bringing things back into public ownership .

they haven't said anything about slow privatisation of NHS have they? 

As for flag shagging...that is a simple vote winner, it was one of the issues the public had with old corbs.

And the strike thing I think was ok personally...they can't just say they support the strikes no matter as they will likely be negotiating with unions if they get in.

and not being clear about public ownership is fair enough, but they have said they would nationalise the railways, and there would be a state owned (or funded) green energy company...but Starmer is very good at saying circumstances change etc.

[pink_triangle]

12 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

ok maybe policies is the wrong word .... maybe visuals is better , the slow privatisation of the NHS , flag shagging , not standing behind people striking .  not being clear on bringing things back into public ownership .

They don’t want to give the torys ammunition for their attack adverts. However ask the question which party will be the best for NHS, social care and workers in power.

[steviewevie]

The main thing labour would need to do if they're going to avoid being a one term govt is to just improve things, and there's a lot that needs improving. A lot of people are struggling with cost of living, and public services are in a bit of a state...I expect these sort of things are at the top of a lot of voter's minds.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

They don’t want to give the torys ammunition for their attack adverts. However ask the question which party will be the best for NHS, social care and workers in power.

oh i dont doubt that Labour would be better ..... but that doesn't mean I shouldn't question ? surely stating  or making it policy they wont privatise the NHS would win votes ? but I guess they wont do that because it was them who started it 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They don’t want to give the torys ammunition for their attack adverts. However ask the question which party will be the best for NHS, social care and workers in power.

They can’t win either way. Some will moan that Labour have no policies and some will moan the policies are too right wing. When none of that is true at all. Their green policies alone show how progressive they are.

As you say the NHS would be in much better state if Labour were in power and anyone that says Labour are going to privatise it frankly don’t really know what they are talking about. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

They can’t win either way. Some will moan that Labour have no policies and some will moan the policies are too right wing. When none of that is true at all. Their green policies alone show how progressive they are.

As you say the NHS would be in much better state if Labour were in power and anyone that says Labour are going to privatise it frankly don’t really know what they are talking about. 

it would be better because of the speed of privatisation .. the NHS sell off started under Blair didnt it ? or are you gonna tell me ive got that wrong ? 

[steviewevie]

Meanwhile China is playing Attack Taiwan.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

it would be better because of the speed of privatisation .. the NHS sell off started under Blair didnt it ? or are you gonna tell me ive got that wrong ? 

I’m saying that Labour aren’t going to privatise or sell the NHS. A Labour government would ensure more funding is pushed into the NHS and work with private firms to help get the waiting lists down. 

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

it would be better because of the speed of privatisation .. the NHS sell off started under Blair didnt it ? or are you gonna tell me ive got that wrong ? 

you mean outsourcing and PFI etc? I guess they did. They also increased spending on health care and stuff did improve.

I don't know what future holds for NHS, it is massive, and everyone is old and sick.

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’m saying that Labour aren’t going to privatise or sell the NHS. A Labour government would ensure more funding is pushed into the NHS and work with private firms to help get the waiting lists down. 

we will see , not sure I share your confidence