news & politics:discussion

[Kurosagi]

 [Probably best to post this here rather than the Scotland thread as it's not about independence]

With the polling gap closing between Labour and the Tories for the next westminster election it's possible that Labour in a coalition may be more amenable to changing the electoral system. For those living in Scotland, what's your opinion of the 'list' system? How's that form of PR been working out?

There are views I've been picking up recently that try to lay some of the blame of the SNP's current travails down to the quality of their MSPs. For example, arguing that the list system attracts younger more careerist candidates whose primary focus is  internal to the party to help get up the list rather than trying to impress the voters.

But, I'll freely admit I don't know enough about individual Scottish MSPs to know whether that would be a fair assessment or wide of the mark?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

gonna need to up the teachers  wages to get decent math graduates into teaching, my kid with a first in maths had a plum pick of jobs.

When I graduated in Biology there were a lot of incentives to do the 2 year maths teaching conversion course as well as bonuses when you started work. Its always been a difficult area to fill vacancies.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Kurosagi said:

 [Probably best to post this here rather than the Scotland thread as it's not about independence]

With the polling gap closing between Labour and the Tories for the next westminster election it's possible that Labour in a coalition may be more amenable to changing the electoral system. For those living in Scotland, what's your opinion of the 'list' system? How's that form of PR been working out?

There are views I've been picking up recently that try to lay some of the blame of the SNP's current travails down to the quality of their MSPs. For example, arguing that the list system attracts younger more careerist candidates whose primary focus is  internal to the party to help get up the list rather than trying to impress the voters.

But, I'll freely admit I don't know enough about individual Scottish MSPs to know whether that would be a fair assessment or wide of the mark?

i reckon a list system isn't popular a cross the uk cos it creates a new gravy train. if labour are planning electoral reform it needs to be laid out in full in the manifesto, danger is it looks lik an attempt to gerrymander the system to labour's advantage, don't forget the population is happy to return tory govts most of the time.

 

 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

don't forget the population is happy to return tory govts most of the time.

are they?

most of the time over 50% vote for opposition parties.

[Kurosagi]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

i reckon a list system isn't popular a cross the uk cos it creates a new gravy train.

Below is from wiki, the bit in bold is the bit I'm concerned about as it appears to set up that gravy train promise in return for brown nosing the leadership:

"The remaining 56 MSPs, called "List MSPs", are elected by an additional members system, which seeks to make the overall results more proportional, countering any distortions in the constituency results. Each political party draws up a list of candidates standing in each electoral region, from which the list MSPs are elected. Independents can also stand in regions, in which case they are treated as a one-person "list". Candidates can stand for both a constituency and a list; should they be elected for a constituency, this takes precedence and they are skipped over when apportioning seats from their party list."

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

if labour are planning electoral reform it needs to be laid out in full in the manifesto

Or could do it via a referendum similar to the failed Clegg attempt (so probably not!).

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

Or could do it via a referendum similar to the failed Clegg attempt (so probably not!).

if the voting system is being changed the public would expect a referendum.that last one wasn't clegg's attempt its what the tories stitched him up with.

[steviewevie]

fptp is both shit and simple.

[steviewevie]

or simply shit.

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

are they?

most of the time over 50% vote for opposition parties.

but enough vote tory to put the tories in power, if the public didn't like that outcome they'd change that outcome by changing their votes. - that needs to be kept in mind if you want the public's support for a new system.

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

fptp is both shit and simple.

and changing it looks like a stitch-up.

[Neil]

59 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Oh dear Sunak, how’s that integrity going for ya. 

its going the same way as major's 'family values'.

[Neil]

anyone gonna watch the musk rocket spectacular in an hour's time?

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Neil said:

and changing it looks like a stitch-up.

maybe-  or keeping as it is is a stich up.

[Kurosagi]

13 minutes ago, Neil said:

and changing it looks like a stitch-up.

I look forward to what people have to think about the Tories' new stitch up come the local elections - photo id or barred from voting...

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Neil said:

anyone gonna watch the musk rocket spectacular in an hour's time?

happening soon. Very exciting. Will count down...and then nothing will happen.

Yawn.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

anyone gonna watch the musk rocket spectacular in an hour's time?

its all gone horridly wrong.
 

[steviewevie]

the master has ran the numbers...and prepare for Trump the sequel.

 

[Kurosagi]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

the master has ran the numbers...and prepare for Trump the sequel.

 

Nobody going to lock him up then?

[Kurosagi]

Oh, the article is limited to subscribers, anyone got access?

I got as far as this before it blocked me out:

"There’s no going back [he's talking about the influence of AI]. And there’s good news — the HR-pundit complex will get decimated, many of the worst voices in the old media will soon cry out then fall silent."

Cummings does have a short-hand language of his own, what on earth is 'HR-pundit complex' when it's at home?

[lost]

Trump & Starmer dream team to repair the special relationship?

[steviewevie]

I can't even get my head around Trump back as president. Fuck knows what that will mean for everything.

[fraybentos1]

3 hours ago, Kurosagi said:

 [Probably best to post this here rather than the Scotland thread as it's not about independence]

With the polling gap closing between Labour and the Tories for the next westminster election it's possible that Labour in a coalition may be more amenable to changing the electoral system. For those living in Scotland, what's your opinion of the 'list' system? How's that form of PR been working out?

There are views I've been picking up recently that try to lay some of the blame of the SNP's current travails down to the quality of their MSPs. For example, arguing that the list system attracts younger more careerist candidates whose primary focus is  internal to the party to help get up the list rather than trying to impress the voters.

But, I'll freely admit I don't know enough about individual Scottish MSPs to know whether that would be a fair assessment or wide of the mark?

It’s infinitely better than FPTP but not perfect. And yes, it means some numpties get in easily on the list and will be MSPs for life probably despite few people actually liking them. See Green MSP Ross Greer for example, never finished uni before being top of the green list for west Scotland, 7 or so percent of the vote gets them a seat and he probs has a job for life 

[Kurosagi]

The free bit of Cumming's substack was talking about this election cycle likely to be heavily influenced by Russian & Chinese AI. Presumably that would be in trying to make sure Trump wins i.e. destabilise the US (even further). Or would that be too simplistic? I don't know what way is up anymore.

[Kurosagi]

4 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

It’s infinitely better than FPTP but not perfect. And yes, it means some numpties get in easily on the list and will be MSPs for life probably despite few people actually liking them.

So with the gravy train problems around the current system, does that mean there is any talk up North about changing it given the SNP meltdown? Too early perhaps, maybe if Murrell gets charged and the party go bankrupt?

Definitely seems like an imperfect use of PR principles, it seems totally bizarre that you can pack parliament with over 40% of MSPs that have not been voted for by the public. Weird. I had no idea that was the system until looking at it this morning.

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Kurosagi said:

The free bit of Cumming's substack was talking about this election cycle likely to be heavily influenced by Russian & Chinese AI. Presumably that would be in trying to make sure Trump wins i.e. destabilise the US (even further). Or would that be too simplistic? I don't know what way is up anymore.

How do I know you are not AI?

How do I know I'm not?