news & politics:discussion

[Guest]

It's funny because Cummings has presented this info without giving any background or detail behind and just expects people to trust him. He's a renowned liar.

[steviewevie]

I think recent polling has shown Trump winning anyway, right? Still a long way to go. He may be in prison. Biden might be dead.

[Guest]

I thought polling was more neck and neck but I could be wrong. If I was to put money on it I’d say Biden wins. 

[Kurosagi]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

How do I know you are not AI?

How do I know I'm not?

Won't be long before you'll categorically not be able to answer either question. It's going to be some rabbit hole type shit society's about to plunge down.

[Kurosagi]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

It's funny because Cummings has presented this info without giving any background or detail behind and just expects people to trust him. He's a renowned liar.

...unless you're a subscriber you can't see the detail...hence asking if someone was so I could judge for myself whether he's bullshitting or not.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Kurosagi said:

Won't be long before you'll categorically not be able to answer either question. It's going to be some rabbit hole type shit society's about to plunge down.

I think I would do a better job if I was replaced with AI.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Kurosagi said:

...unless you're a subscriber you can't see the detail...hence asking if someone was so I could judge for myself whether he's bullshitting or not.

Maybe he does have polling data or whatever...but it's not really bullshit because it's the future...unless we're going all minority report or something...

[Kurosagi]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

I think recent polling has shown Trump winning anyway, right? Still a long way to go. He may be in prison. Biden might be dead.

Anyone see the 47th President play at the Old Vic a couple of years ago?

<spoiler alert>

Biden loses his shit and resigns, Kamala becomes acting president, sends Trump to prison, riots ensue, Kamala kills Trump. All in blank verse. Marvellous.

[LJS]

5 hours ago, Kurosagi said:

 [Probably best to post this here rather than the Scotland thread as it's not about independence]

With the polling gap closing between Labour and the Tories for the next westminster election it's possible that Labour in a coalition may be more amenable to changing the electoral system. For those living in Scotland, what's your opinion of the 'list' system? How's that form of PR been working out?

I like our system  - it's not perfect but then every system has its flaws  - it was intended to avoid one party dominating the parliament  - this is often presented as being the SNP - but the truth is when devolution was introduced the only party anyone could imagine sweeping the board at every election was Labour. ( It had a clear majority of Scottish MPs in every election from 1959 to 2010)

Anyway, the notion that to have an overall majority you need 50+% of the vote seems entirely sensible to me.

And the fact that our system allows me to have 2 votes both of which "count" is rather nice. It means voting green is not a wasted vote.

The system has allowed the Greens to have a significant influence on government policy generally for the good.

Of course, we have the huge advantage in Scotland that hardly anyone votes Tory so short of having OTTV system (one tory ten votes) system , we will never* have a Tory Government

 

5 hours ago, Kurosagi said:

There are views I've been picking up recently that try to lay some of the blame of the SNP's current travails down to the quality of their MSPs. For example, arguing that the list system attracts younger more careerist candidates whose primary focus is  internal to the party to help get up the list rather than trying to impress the voters.

I think any list system has this flaw and it is one of the disadvantages of such a system. However, all the parties now have such a tight  control over who is allowed to be candidate under FPTP that I think that disadvantage has all but disappeared. Are you telling me there is a shortage of "young careerist" candidates being selected for Westminster constituencies in other parties? 

I  think part of the SNP's problem is that it went from having under 10 MP's in the years running up to devolution to having over 40 MPs + MSPs when devolution started to having well over 100 by the 2010's. Where do you suddenly find enough competent and experienced people? So I would argue this is a problem caused  by the stratospheric rise of the SNP -- not by the voting system.

Incidentally, we use 3 different voting systems in Scotland for Westminster, Holyrood & local councils.  It was 4 until we left the EU. 

5 hours ago, Kurosagi said:

But, I'll freely admit I don't know enough about individual Scottish MSPs to know whether that would be a fair assessment or wide of the mark?

Let me put it this way. if we had FPTP for Holyrood, the SNP would have had about 75+% of the MSPs in the last 3 elections. I'm sure none of you want that

1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said:

It’s infinitely better than FPTP but not perfect. And yes, it means some numpties get in easily on the list and will be MSPs for life probably despite few people actually liking them. See Green MSP Ross Greer for example, never finished uni before being top of the green list for west Scotland, 7 or so percent of the vote gets them a seat and he probs has a job for life 

I think in, general, the Greens have some of the hardest working and conscientious MSPs despite all being list members. Personally, I'm not sure not finishing Uni should disqualify you from public office and I'd take 10 Ross Greers before I would have one Murdo Fraser.

 

 

* fingers crossed

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, LJS said:

I like our system  - it's not perfect but then every system has its flaws  - it was intended to avoid one party dominating the parliament  -

not fit for purpose then!!!!

[steviewevie]

 

[Kurosagi]

Thanks for the overview @LJS.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the influence of the Greens. I know that coalitions are tricky things to get right, but when *both* parties make their red lines a policy that is secondary to their core interests (Independence for the SNP, environment for the greens) it's a disappointment to see political capital get squandered.

The socialist in me agrees that university shouldn't be a prerequisite, however I would strongly argue that real word experience either organising in or running a work place should count for something before trying to effectively represent people with all their diverse issues and needs.

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I think any list system has this flaw and it is one of the disadvantages of such a system. However, all the parties now have such a tight  control over who is allowed to be candidate under FPTP that I think that disadvantage has all but disappeared.

Yep, this is a problem isn't it. Personally I find it really hard to balance the need for 'blind' loyalty to achieve collective ambition against the concern that 'blind' loyalty can be abused by nefarious authoritarians. 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

Are you telling me there is a shortage of "young careerist" candidates being selected for Westminster constituencies in other parties?

Just had a quick look...since 1979 Westminster has been regularly returning MPs approx 50 years old on average and scotland it's the same, so a perceived influx of young careerists is probably not an issue. I can't find an age breakdown for Scotland though so don't know if the profile is skewed - for westminster there are only 5% of MPs that are below 30.

[LJS]

2 hours ago, Kurosagi said:

Thanks for the overview @LJS.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the influence of the Greens. I know that coalitions are tricky things to get right, but when *both* parties make their red lines a policy that is secondary to their core interests (Independence for the SNP, environment for the greens) it's a disappointment to see political capital get squandered.

 

if you have too many red lines, you can't get a coalition. The trick is to achieve the most you can. I think the Greens have done a pretty good job, but like you say we may have to agree to disagree on that.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

Lula upsetting the US with what he is saying about Russia/Ukraine in China. Problem for US is no one likes them, apart from us of course.

[fraybentos1]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

 

I think in, general, the Greens have some of the hardest working and conscientious MSPs despite all being list members. Personally, I'm not sure not finishing Uni should disqualify you from public office and I'd take 10 Ross Greers before I would have one Murdo Fraser.

 

 

 

He didn’t finish uni cause he got a job handed to him, as was his list position. He’s so juvenile I despise him. He also gave a pathetic support to Murrell basically only cause he got him a pay rise a  few years ago. This was just prior to Murrell being arrested lol.

harvey is also an imbecile who is certainly enjoying taking the public purse for all he can for the next 3 years he’s a minister.

as for Lorna slater, please tell me you don’t rate her? Indescribably incompetent. DRS a total farce and she’s an appalling speaker.

[pink_triangle]

My main issue with the list system is it makes it really hard for voters to kick out a really unpopular incumbent. I almost feel the best system would be one where constituents have a say on the order of the list, but no way parties give up that kind of control.

I think the trouble is it’s not a priority for most people, so the demand for change isn’t big enough.

[Neil]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:19 PM, Neil said:

gonna upset the local taxi drivers tomorrow by swerving their services and the £50 fare, to instead do the journey on my grannie chariot.

just to say i did this journey this morning - 2.6miles each way with some steep hills  - quickly and safely.

Got another £50 taxi saving to make on Thursday morning, journey will be a bit more hairy cos i haven't had a chance to check out all of the route for obstacles, etc, and i don't even know the way and will have to use  the google maps satnav for about 1/3 of the way.

its good getting myself a bit more independence. 🙂 

[steviewevie]

37 minutes ago, Neil said:

just to say i did this journey this morning - 2.6miles each way with some steep hills  - quickly and safely.

Got another £50 taxi saving to make on Thursday morning, journey will be a bit more hairy cos i haven't had a chance to check out all of the route for obstacles, etc, and i don't even know the way and will have to use  the google maps satnav for about 1/3 of the way.

its good getting myself a bit more independence. 🙂 

how are you doing this? using a wheelchair?

[Neil]

ble arm

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

how are you doing this? using a wheelchair?

definitely not-  i did that on my grannie chariot -  i can't wheel my wheelchair to the end of the road, cos its hard to give it enough power with just one working arm.

[Neil]

20 hours ago, LJS said:

if you have too many red lines, you can't get a coalition. The trick is to achieve the most you can. I think the Greens have done a pretty good job, but like you say we may have to agree to disagree on that.

problem here is that you approve of the system cos you like the outcomes.in the uk where a big chunk won't like outcomes which aren't a tory govt, it's harder to come up with a system that has approval, if it creates  different outcomes its an attempt to gerry mander the system.

 

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, Neil said:

ble arm

definitely not-  i did that on my grannie chariot -  i can't wheel my wheelchair to the end of the road, cos its hard to give it enough power with just one working arm.

What's a grannie chariot?! An electric wheelchair thingy? Must be hard work with the state of our footpaths..

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

What's a grannie chariot?! An electric wheelchair thingy? Must be hard work with the state of our footpaths..

in this instANCE ITS EXACTLY THIS...,.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

in this instANCE ITS EXACTLY THIS...,.

Woah

[Neil]

28 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Woah

Definitely a granny chariot and not Very cool.its difficult to get cool looking nobility scooters.

There's a few on Amazon at the moment that look like Vespas or lambrettas that I quite fancy for a cooler look, but other factors are more important to me right now, such as something that would take less space in the house, that would fit easily into a car that has good ground clearance for uneven ground, thatI can take on a bus to make travel cheaper, and finally that can carry a passenger so the wife doesn't have to trot behind me, I've Found one to do all that and I should soon have the funds to buy it.