news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

BET NOW!

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

t the migration of left wing votes like mine to the greens

no proof of that happening, its a corbynista loony fantasy still no grip on reality for you lot..

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

BET NOW!

i reckon he'll survive, but plenty of the w*nkers will kick off, expect some barbs from spaffer ("i'd have done better")

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Will be very interesting to see how the poll lead translates at the local elections.

My own belief is that the migration of left wing votes like mine to the greens will be much more significant than quoted, and that the liberals being put off by Starmer’s authoritarianism will mean the Lib Dems also do well.

Theres no doubt Labour will gain but the extent of that gain will be more limited than forecasted imo.

Conservatives will set expectations low and will therefore probably meet them. I’m not sure the local elections will tell the whole story as it’s more politically engaged people voting than the “once every 5 years “ crew who determine elections. There will also be labour left voters who will protest in a local election, but in a general election note there are only 2 parties who can lead a government and take a pragmatic approach.

[steviewevie]

also some people might vote for something called local issues.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, mattiloy said:

Will be very interesting to see how the poll lead translates at the local elections.

My own belief is that the migration of left wing votes like mine to the greens will be much more significant than quoted, and that the liberals being put off by Starmer’s authoritarianism will mean the Lib Dems also do well.

Theres no doubt Labour will gain but the extent of that gain will be more limited than forecasted imo.

ignoring what's going on with labour - its quite reasonable to expect an increase in green votes anyway - climate crisis, climate crisis, climate crisis.

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

also some people might vote for something called local issues.

whcich probably favours greens anyway.

[Neil]

will an increase in libdem votes be claimed as a corbynite victory?????

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Neil said:

will an increase in libdem votes be claimed as a corbynite victory?????

It’s more a Tory failure. 

[Neil]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s more a Tory failure. 

The corbynite Will clasaim it as a labour failure.

Good job we're not all like maruloy else he'd have himself another Tory govt.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

The corbynite Will clasaim it as a labour failure.

Good job we're not all like maruloy else he'd have himself another Tory govt.

 

Yes they will but they will always give awful takes like that. 

[Neil]

Starmer has betrayed the left with this capitalist "getting into power" nonsense. Losing elections is an ancient tradition of the Labour Party and I see no reason to dirty ourselves with trying to change that. There is literally no difference at all between Kier Starmer and Genghis Khan. None. Except the horse.

[steviewevie]

a whole bunch of expectation management going on...Labour saying gaining 400 seats would be a good result, Tories saying they expect to lose 1000 seats.

( do you call it seats in local elections?)

[Guest]

This makes a good point on the analysing the outcome of the locals. 

[Neil]

Just now, Ozanne said:

This makes a good point on the analysing the outcome of the locals. 

The corbynites Will never agree to fair evaluation of anything, it might contradict the dogma .

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Neil said:

The corbynites Will never agree to fair evaluation of anything, it might contradict the dogma .

Ha that’s true 😉 

I didn’t realise that Tories did that badly back in 2019 locals to return their 2nd worst set of results. Taking that into account they really should be making gains in some parts of the country. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Ozanne

[SheffJeff]

11 minutes ago, Neil said:

The corbynite Will clasaim it as a labour failure.

Good job we're not all like maruloy else he'd have himself another Tory govt.

 

Out of interest when you didn't vote for Corbyn did you want another Tory government or did you just not want Corbyn as Prime Minister? As a bystander I don't see much difference in your view of Corbyn and how it swayed your vote and mattiloys view on Starmer and how its swaying his vote... just different sides of the coin.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Out of interest when you didn't vote for Corbyn did you want another Tory government or did you just not want Corbyn as Prime Minister? As a bystander I don't see much difference in your view of Corbyn and how it swayed your vote and mattiloys view on Starmer and how its swaying his vote... just different sides of the coin.

When I didn't vote for Corbyn I voted green in a seat the greens have a high chance of winning.

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Out of interest when you didn't vote for Corbyn did you want another Tory government or did you just not want Corbyn as Prime Minister? As a bystander I don't see much difference in your view of Corbyn and how it swayed your vote and mattiloys view on Starmer and how its swaying his vote... just different sides of the coin.

I thought Corbyn was useless and destined for failure. I still voted labour in 2019 as I believe a labour government is better than a Tory one. I think most Corbyn supporters will come to a similar conclusion in 2024

[steviewevie]

I thought the labour's manifesto was pretty groovy when Corbyn was leader...but like a lot of people I never thought he'd ever be PM, especially in 2019 when he was super unpopular....no idea why they agreed to that election.

[mattiloy]

13 years in power with a similar approach to what Starmer’s Labour proposes. Little to show for it. They could have done a lot of good.

The question is whether you believe systemic change is needed, or whether you believe that quick fixes to treat symptoms of a failing system are adequate, or whether you believe in the former but that it’s necessary for Starmer’s Labour to pretend to be a party of the latter and then actually have faith that they will deliver systemic change.

I believe systemic change is needed. I don’t think that is made more likely by electing a Labour majority. So I won’t be voting Labour.

[steviewevie]

I hope everyone will be doing this...

 

[pink_triangle]

34 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

13 years in power with a similar approach to what Starmer’s Labour proposes. Little to show for it. They could have done a lot of good.

The question is whether you believe systemic change is needed, or whether you believe that quick fixes to treat symptoms of a failing system are adequate, or whether you believe in the former but that it’s necessary for Starmer’s Labour to pretend to be a party of the latter and then actually have faith that they will deliver systemic change.

I believe systemic change is needed. I don’t think that is made more likely by electing a Labour majority. So I won’t be voting Labour.

They did a lot of good. Improvement of the NHS, improved education, minimum wage, reduced poverty, implemented sure start. It wasn’t perfect and they could have done more. I would however argue that between 1997 and 2010 people in general felt better than they do now.

The trouble with Corbyn supporters downplaying the achievements of the Labour government. It feeds into the narrative that there is no point changing. I personally see a lot of areas where Starmer Labour will improve the country, they may not move as much as some would like, but they can shift things in the right direction.