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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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1 minute ago, Neil said:

Looks like labour don't have a bottomless pit of money, electorate don't want hand-outs to the rich 

graduates aren't necessarily rich...a lot of inequality now skewed towards older generations, who would have benefited from free uni education as well as affordable house prices.

Maybe haven't got money to scrap completely as other priorities etc, but definitely needs reviewing/changing imo.

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Neil Grand Master

Neil

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5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

graduates aren't necessarily rich...a lot of inequality now skewed towards older generations, who would have benefited from free uni education as well as affordable house prices.

Maybe haven't got money to scrap completely as other priorities etc, but definitely needs reviewing/changing imo.

Graduates tend to be the better paid.

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Neil Grand Master

Neil

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Guardian are predicting that Gove and spelling mistake will be unemployed after next election.

Those seats are so tory it'd be amazing.

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I don't know much about maintenance grants but I wonder if Labour will look to bring these back in. Good to see they will look to change the current system though.

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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copy and paste from guardian about starmer and those pledges...

Pledge 1 – economic justice

What it says: “Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.”

Kept or broken?: PARTLY KEPT. Labour under Starmer is committed to tackling tax avoidance, and reversing corporation tax isn’t just Labour policy, but has become Tory policy too. But Starmer is no longer promising tax rises for the top 5% of earners, which was the key element of this package.

Pledge 2 – social justice

What it says: “Abolish universal credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. The tuition fees promise was the most salient of these pledges, in the context of the leadership contest, and that has now gone. (See 9.01am.) Labour has also clarified its position on universal credit, saying it will reform it, but not abolish it. (No one ever expected the party to tear up the whole system, but Starmer was happy to use the word “abolish”, as Labour had in 2019).

Pledge 3 – climate justice

What it says: “Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. A climate investment pledge worth £28bn a year is one of Starmer’s biggest election commitments.

Pledge 4 – promote peace and human rights

What it says: “No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.”

Kept or broken?: PARTLY KEPT. Starmer has not backed any illegal wars. But he has done little to advance these proposals either since he was elected leader three years ago, and Labour MPs were ordered to abstain on the overseas operation bill, which was hard to square with the spirit of this pledge.

Pledge 5 – common ownership

What it says: “Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. Starmer has accepted this. On the Today programme this morning, when asked about his pledges, he was open about this. He said:

I’m not ideological about it. We have said when it comes to railways, for example, we will bring railways back into public ownership as the contracts expire. We’ve set up GB Energy which will be a publicly owned company.

But when I looked in the middle of the energy price crisis last year, I asked my team to work out how much it would cost for us to nationalise the energy companies, and what benefit [there] would then be for those that were paying very high bills, and the answer was, it cost a lot but you couldn’t really reduce the bills by doing it. So I made a political choice that we wouldn’t do that.

Asked about water companies, he said nationalising them would cost a “huge” amount and that tighter regulation could address the water quality problem.

Pledge 6 – defend migrants’ rights

What it says: “Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. Free movement was a key issue for Labour members in 2019-20, and Starmer admits that it is no longer something he supports. On the Today programme this morning he argued that what he really meant was “defend free movement until we leave the EU”, but that is not what he said at the time.

Pledge 7 – strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions

What it says: “Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Labour is proposing measures to strengthen workers’ rights, and it has voted against the government’s anti-strikes bill.

Pledge 8 – radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity

What it says: “Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. In December last year Starmer welcomed a long and detailed report from Gordon Brown saying how this could happen. Some observers suspect that, in power, Labour would shelve Lords reform, but currently this is still very much on track.

Pledge 9 – equality

What it says: “Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Under Starmer Labour has developed a series of policies to promote the equalities agenda.

Pledge 10 – effective opposition to the Tories

What it says: “Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Labour’s candidate selection suggests promoting pluralism is not a priority for Starmer (leftwingers are being purged), but no one can deny that the party is providing effective opposition to the Tories. The latest Politico poll of polls has Labour 14 points ahead.

 

 

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fraybentos1 Grand Master

fraybentos1

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25 minutes ago, Neil said:

The people who voted libdem in 2010, are still happy to let the tories in.

There’s many many constituencies where voting Lib Dem is the only way to beat the tories. Roughly 100 for the next gen election. I’m sure there were plenty in 2010 too. It’s been shown time and again that strong Lib Dem performances at general elections often help labour. Look at 97, 01,05. 
 

Also compare the difference between 2010 and 2015, both lacklustre from Labour but2010 resulted in hung parly due to libs but 2015 was a Tory maj which resulted in brexit and the mess we are in now 

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1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

copy and paste from guardian about starmer and those pledges...

Pledge 1 – economic justice

What it says: “Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.”

Kept or broken?: PARTLY KEPT. Labour under Starmer is committed to tackling tax avoidance, and reversing corporation tax isn’t just Labour policy, but has become Tory policy too. But Starmer is no longer promising tax rises for the top 5% of earners, which was the key element of this package.

Pledge 2 – social justice

What it says: “Abolish universal credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. The tuition fees promise was the most salient of these pledges, in the context of the leadership contest, and that has now gone. (See 9.01am.) Labour has also clarified its position on universal credit, saying it will reform it, but not abolish it. (No one ever expected the party to tear up the whole system, but Starmer was happy to use the word “abolish”, as Labour had in 2019).

Pledge 3 – climate justice

What it says: “Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. A climate investment pledge worth £28bn a year is one of Starmer’s biggest election commitments.

Pledge 4 – promote peace and human rights

What it says: “No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.”

Kept or broken?: PARTLY KEPT. Starmer has not backed any illegal wars. But he has done little to advance these proposals either since he was elected leader three years ago, and Labour MPs were ordered to abstain on the overseas operation bill, which was hard to square with the spirit of this pledge.

Pledge 5 – common ownership

What it says: “Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. Starmer has accepted this. On the Today programme this morning, when asked about his pledges, he was open about this. He said:

I’m not ideological about it. We have said when it comes to railways, for example, we will bring railways back into public ownership as the contracts expire. We’ve set up GB Energy which will be a publicly owned company.

But when I looked in the middle of the energy price crisis last year, I asked my team to work out how much it would cost for us to nationalise the energy companies, and what benefit [there] would then be for those that were paying very high bills, and the answer was, it cost a lot but you couldn’t really reduce the bills by doing it. So I made a political choice that we wouldn’t do that.

Asked about water companies, he said nationalising them would cost a “huge” amount and that tighter regulation could address the water quality problem.

Pledge 6 – defend migrants’ rights

What it says: “Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. Free movement was a key issue for Labour members in 2019-20, and Starmer admits that it is no longer something he supports. On the Today programme this morning he argued that what he really meant was “defend free movement until we leave the EU”, but that is not what he said at the time.

Pledge 7 – strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions

What it says: “Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Labour is proposing measures to strengthen workers’ rights, and it has voted against the government’s anti-strikes bill.

Pledge 8 – radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity

What it says: “Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. In December last year Starmer welcomed a long and detailed report from Gordon Brown saying how this could happen. Some observers suspect that, in power, Labour would shelve Lords reform, but currently this is still very much on track.

Pledge 9 – equality

What it says: “Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Under Starmer Labour has developed a series of policies to promote the equalities agenda.

Pledge 10 – effective opposition to the Tories

What it says: “Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Labour’s candidate selection suggests promoting pluralism is not a priority for Starmer (leftwingers are being purged), but no one can deny that the party is providing effective opposition to the Tories. The latest Politico poll of polls has Labour 14 points ahead.

 

 

Tbh it seems like he’s at least partially kept to quite a lot of those pledges?

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hodgey123 Rising Star

hodgey123

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Tuition fee pledge broken is not a good look for Starmer. He is veering far too much to the right in my opinion and I know it is to get votes, and it may just work, but it doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with it. 

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Crazyfool01 Grand Master

Crazyfool01

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Neil said:

The people who voted libdem in 2010, are still happy to let the tories in.

I vote lib dem and I align better with them .....than I do with Kiers labour .... I vote Lib dem to keep the tories out . as thats the second party here ... id vote Labour if they were second however 

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steviewevie Grand Master

steviewevie

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Posted
7 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

Tuition fee pledge broken is not a good look for Starmer. He is veering far too much to the right in my opinion and I know it is to get votes, and it may just work, but it doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with it. 

is tuition fees right wing?

discuss.

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I’ve been sharing plenty of recent policy announcements by Labour recently, some really good ones and it’s barely been mentioned. Yet this one is, why is that?

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