news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

copy and paste from guardian about starmer and those pledges...

Pledge 1 – economic justice

What it says: “Increase income tax for the top 5% of earners, reverse the Tories’ cuts in corporation tax and clamp down on tax avoidance, particularly of large corporations. No stepping back from our core principles.”

Kept or broken?: PARTLY KEPT. Labour under Starmer is committed to tackling tax avoidance, and reversing corporation tax isn’t just Labour policy, but has become Tory policy too. But Starmer is no longer promising tax rises for the top 5% of earners, which was the key element of this package.

Pledge 2 – social justice

What it says: “Abolish universal credit and end the Tories’ cruel sanctions regime. Set a national goal for wellbeing to make health as important as GDP; Invest in services that help shift to a preventative approach. Stand up for universal services and defend our NHS. Support the abolition of tuition fees and invest in lifelong learning.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. The tuition fees promise was the most salient of these pledges, in the context of the leadership contest, and that has now gone. (See 9.01am.) Labour has also clarified its position on universal credit, saying it will reform it, but not abolish it. (No one ever expected the party to tear up the whole system, but Starmer was happy to use the word “abolish”, as Labour had in 2019).

Pledge 3 – climate justice

What it says: “Put the Green New Deal at the heart of everything we do. There is no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. A Clean Air Act to tackle pollution locally. Demand international action on climate rights.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. A climate investment pledge worth £28bn a year is one of Starmer’s biggest election commitments.

Pledge 4 – promote peace and human rights

What it says: “No more illegal wars. Introduce a Prevention of Military Intervention Act and put human rights at the heart of foreign policy. Review all UK arms sales and make us a force for international peace and justice.”

Kept or broken?: PARTLY KEPT. Starmer has not backed any illegal wars. But he has done little to advance these proposals either since he was elected leader three years ago, and Labour MPs were ordered to abstain on the overseas operation bill, which was hard to square with the spirit of this pledge.

Pledge 5 – common ownership

What it says: “Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; end outsourcing in our NHS, local government and justice system.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. Starmer has accepted this. On the Today programme this morning, when asked about his pledges, he was open about this. He said:

I’m not ideological about it. We have said when it comes to railways, for example, we will bring railways back into public ownership as the contracts expire. We’ve set up GB Energy which will be a publicly owned company.

But when I looked in the middle of the energy price crisis last year, I asked my team to work out how much it would cost for us to nationalise the energy companies, and what benefit [there] would then be for those that were paying very high bills, and the answer was, it cost a lot but you couldn’t really reduce the bills by doing it. So I made a political choice that we wouldn’t do that.

Asked about water companies, he said nationalising them would cost a “huge” amount and that tighter regulation could address the water quality problem.

Pledge 6 – defend migrants’ rights

What it says: “Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood.”

Kept or broken?: BROKEN. Free movement was a key issue for Labour members in 2019-20, and Starmer admits that it is no longer something he supports. On the Today programme this morning he argued that what he really meant was “defend free movement until we leave the EU”, but that is not what he said at the time.

Pledge 7 – strengthen workers’ rights and trade unions

What it says: “Work shoulder to shoulder with trade unions to stand up for working people, tackle insecure work and low pay. Repeal the Trade Union Act. Oppose Tory attacks on the right to take industrial action and the weakening of workplace rights.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Labour is proposing measures to strengthen workers’ rights, and it has voted against the government’s anti-strikes bill.

Pledge 8 – radical devolution of power, wealth and opportunity

What it says: “Push power, wealth and opportunity away from Whitehall. A federal system to devolve powers – including through regional investment banks and control over regional industrial strategy. Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. In December last year Starmer welcomed a long and detailed report from Gordon Brown saying how this could happen. Some observers suspect that, in power, Labour would shelve Lords reform, but currently this is still very much on track.

Pledge 9 – equality

What it says: “Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent. We are the party of the Equal Pay Act, Sure Start, BAME representation and the abolition of Section 28 – we must build on that for a new decade.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Under Starmer Labour has developed a series of policies to promote the equalities agenda.

Pledge 10 – effective opposition to the Tories

What it says: “Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.”

Kept or broken?: KEPT. Labour’s candidate selection suggests promoting pluralism is not a priority for Starmer (leftwingers are being purged), but no one can deny that the party is providing effective opposition to the Tories. The latest Politico poll of polls has Labour 14 points ahead.

 

 

Lmao. Who wrote this? Mandelson? Such spin.

’Partly kept’ = broken but proposed something weakly oriented in the general direction of the pledge.

Kept on 7 - Workers rights = not actually announced any policies but slagged off strikers fighting for exactly their rights and better pay.

Kept on 9 - Equality = not announced any policies and thrown trans people to the wolves.

Kept on 10 - effective opposition to the tories = never has an opposition abstained or voted with the government on so many bills or packed the candidate list with people ideologically convergent with the government. Going so far as to recruit a tory and then deny his local party what has become the luxury, of deciding whether they would prefer to be represented by someone else. How the fuck is aping the government at every turn ’effective opposition’.

[steviewevie]

page 2

[steviewevie]

Just now, mattiloy said:

Lmao. Who wrote this? Mandelson? Such spin.

’Partly kept’ = broken but proposed something weakly oriented in the general direction of the pledge.

Kept on 7 - Workers rights = not actually announced any policies but slagged off strikers fighting for exactly their rights and better pay.

Kept on 9 - Equality = not announced any policies and thrown trans people to the wolves.

Kept on 10 - effective opposition to the tories = never has an opposition abstained or voted with the government on so many bills or packed the candidate list with people ideologically convergent with the government. Going so far as to recruit a tory and then deny his local party what has become the luxury, of deciding whether they would prefer to be represented by someone else. How the fuck is aping the government at every turn ’effective opposition’.

someone maybe a bit more impartial than you?

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

So they found nothing of note, realised it did them no favours so gave up?

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

So they found nothing of note, realised it did them no favours so gave up?

Totally political, try and make Starmer/Gray look dodgy, but also influence ACOBA...and I reckon there will be a delay. Kind of stupid..but it's all political point scoring.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Totally political, try and make Starmer/Gray look dodgy, but also influence ACOBA...and I reckon there will be a delay. Kind of stupid..but it's all political point scoring.

Has it even done anything though? Seems to be a fuss over nothing. 

[mattiloy]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

someone maybe a bit more impartial than you?

Read it for yourself.

”Stand shoulder to shoulder with trade unions..”

- orders MPs to stay away from picket lines, sacks Sam Tarry for joining one

”“Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent..

- except if you’re trans or a refugee 

”Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.”

- Behind in the polls before tory capitulation, divided the party, lost 1/3rd of the mass membership, rigged candidate selections to make a mockery of the pluralism part and centralised power in the party to an extent never before seen, has seen a founder union disaffiliate and engaged in a war of words with other causing the biggest one to slash funding.

 

But it is the hack who writes drivel for a liberal rag for money who is impartial

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Has it even done anything though? Seems to be a fuss over nothing. 

in terms of when Gray can start work for Labour, we don't know yet...tbd. If has made Starmer look a bit dodge before locals...maybe...but only to those who are interested.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

Read it for yourself.

”Stand shoulder to shoulder with trade unions..”

- orders MPs to stay away from picket lines, sacks Sam Tarry for joining one

”“Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent..

- except if you’re trans or a refugee 

”Forensic, effective opposition to the Tories in Parliament – linked up to our mass membership and a professional election operation. Never lose sight of the votes ‘lent’ to the Tories in 2019. Unite our party, promote pluralism and improve our culture. Robust action to eradicate the scourge of antisemitism. Maintain our collective links with the unions.”

- Behind in the polls before tory capitulation, divided the party, lost 1/3rd of the mass membership, rigged candidate selections to make a mockery of the pluralism part and centralised power in the party to an extent never before seen, has seen a founder union disaffiliate and engaged in a war of words with other causing the biggest one to slash funding.

 

But it is the hack who writes drivel for a liberal rag for money who is impartial

come on, get over it. God Save Sir Keir!

[steviewevie]

I swear my allegiance to Sir Keir.

He may bullshit a bit, but who doesn't? It's kind of human and endearing. I have lied all my life, infact I'm lying now.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

in terms of when Gray can start work for Labour, we don't know yet...tbd. If has made Starmer look a bit dodge before locals...maybe...but only to those who are interested.

It hasn't done that so it's been a failure. ACOBA were going to delay her start date anyway and Starmer wasn't being investigated.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It hasn't done that so it's been a failure. ACOBA were going to delay her start date anyway and Starmer wasn't being investigated.

right wing press have been all over it last few days..so there would have been some damage, but probably mostly amongst tory voters anyway...

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

right wing press have been all over it last few days..so there would have been some damage, but probably mostly amongst tory voters anyway...

ha yeah they have been and they've been shown up as nothing but client hacks.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

ha yeah they have been and they've been shown up as nothing but client hacks.

There's no real conclusion either way... doesn't really change any minds I don't reckon..most people are still just fed up and want something different no matter how many people get in flap.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

There's no real conclusion either way... doesn't really change any minds I don't reckon..most people are still just fed up and want something different no matter how many people get in flap.

It's more than that, look at this:

 

Nothing has turned out to be true. Hodges just spouted his masters wishes without either checking it was true or just out and out lying.

[Neil]

43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I swear my allegiance to Sir Keir.

He may bullshit a bit, but who doesn't? It's kind of human and endearing. I have lied all my life, infact I'm lying now.

And mattiloy bullshits every time he posts this stuff without disclosing he's not resident in the UK, or that he works as an arch capitalist.

[Guest]

Keir does. 

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Keir does. 

what about next year when/if they get in?

[steviewevie]

the revolution has started.

[philipsteak]

5 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

There’s many many constituencies where voting Lib Dem is the only way to beat the tories. Roughly 100 for the next gen election. I’m sure there were plenty in 2010 too. It’s been shown time and again that strong Lib Dem performances at general elections often help labour. Look at 97, 01,05. 
 

Also compare the difference between 2010 and 2015, both lacklustre from Labour but2010 resulted in hung parly due to libs but 2015 was a Tory maj which resulted in brexit and the mess we are in now 

Mines one of them. I get more votes than the labour candidate, They have zero chance here

[Neil]

in Scotland where uni is free, there's a lower take up by disadvantaged people then there is in England where its paid for.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

what about next year when/if they get in?

Considering we aren’t in next year yet that doesn’t really matter.

Labour are highlighting what they would do now which is what people have supposedly been clamouring for. 

[Neil]

Man has issue with the monarchy, and is arrested, it's mental health issues. Cos you can't have an issue and be rational.

[LJS]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

And mattiloy bullshits every time he posts this stuff without disclosing he's not resident in the UK, or that he works as an arch capitalist.

Does that make him wrong?

 

[fraybentos1]

6 hours ago, Neil said:

And mattiloy bullshits every time he posts this stuff without disclosing he's not resident in the UK, or that he works as an arch capitalist.

He’s said he lives in Sweden many times and also that he works for a bank I think. He’s hardly hiding it