news & politics:discussion

[lost]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but exports, growth etc etc. (and main reason for food price inflation is energy costs...they're high across europe).

oils priced in dollars dude. It hit $150 a barrel in 2008. The reason we felt it less was because the pound bought more dollars.

Edited May 11, 2023 by lost

[steviewevie]

Just now, lost said:

I'm saying they will charge what the market can afford. If they can simply say my costs have increased Im raising my rents, why weren't they saying before I'd like to retire early Im raising my rents. Their costs have no baring on the rent they can charge.

Yes they do. Of course they do. If their mortgage on a place has gone up, they will pass that cost into the tenant. Yes they can do what they like with the rents...same with anyone business...but if costs go up you pass onto customer, or lose money.

[lost]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Yes they do. Of course they do. If their mortgage on a place has gone up, they will pass that cost into the tenant. Yes they can do what they like with the rents...same with anyone business...but if costs go up you pass onto customer, or lose money.

You still haven't answered the question why they don't do that at any other time if they can charge unlimited rents?

Surely if what you are saying is correct no landlord would of ever had a house repossessed as they can always pass those costs on?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, lost said:

oils priced in dollars dude. It hit $150 a barrel in 08. The reason we felt it less was because the pound bought more dollars.

gas, russia etc.

and never ever call me dude.

[steviewevie]

Just now, lost said:

You still haven't answered the question why they don't do that at any other time if they can charge unlimited rents?

Surely if what you are saying is correct no landlord would of ever had a house repossessed as they can always pass those costs on?

Jesus. They don't charge unlimited rents because they won't get anyone in.

The argument was rent prices going up recently...at same time as interest rate rises. But yes there are other reasons..tax changes etc.

[lost]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Jesus. They don't charge unlimited rents because they won't get anyone in.

The argument was rent prices going up recently...at same time as interest rate rises. But yes there are other reasons..tax changes etc.

Taxes are a cost. So yes they simply cant pass their taxes (costs) on to the tenant. Glad we finally got there!

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, lost said:

Taxes are a cost. So yes they simply cant pass their taxes (costs) on to the tenant. Glad we finally got there!

Errr...not sure we got anywhere...if you're hoping for some sort of win. I still stand by that if costs go up, the business often passes onto customer. In this case business is landlord, customer is tenant...and cost could be mortgage, or taxes, or anyothershit.

[Neil]

On 5/5/2023 at 2:57 AM, fraybentos1 said:

You sold efests?

yeah, finally got the deal over the line. nearly messed it up by making an appointment with my accountant for next week and not today.

[lost]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 the business often passes onto customer. 

Often yes. But as mentioned Landlords are generally already charging as much as they can get away with. If their costs go above market rate for their rents that's when they have a problem. They simply cant raise the rent above market rates.

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

They simply cant raise the rent above market rates.

they can cos their customers cant be homeless.

[Guest]

Money Saving Expert doesn’t see the logic either. But let’s agree with the BoE. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

they can cos their customers cant be homeless.

He supports the Tories, so will try to protect the wealthy. 

[lost]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

they can cos their customers cant be homeless.

You've never moved for cheaper rent? I have.

Seriously I get why people with big mortgages don't want higher rates but the "wont someone think of the landlords angle" is stretching it a bit. The majority of rented property in this country isn't mortgaged

[cellar]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yes I get why they are raising interest rates...but food inflation has been stubbornly high which has been down to high energy prices for food industry across europe...and those high energy prices were due to the Russia/Ukraine thing. I mean, they keep putting up interest rates and they're not making much of a difference, just making life harder for many people...so maybe there will be a longer gap before they put up again, if they do...

They are making a difference - prices are coming down. Its just as others are saying, it turns out they should have raised interest rates higher and faster to begin with, so the impact isn't being felt as much as we would all like. I actually thought it was a bit of a coin flip whenever they raised it to 4% - I was wrong about that in hindsight (as in it was a much more necessary decision to do it).

I think its been discussed before, but in terms of the BoE, raising interest rates is their only tool to fight inflation, as they can't control supply side issues. Its not nice, but there isn't an alternative for them - it would have to be government doing something.

[cellar]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Money Saving Expert doesn’t see the logic either. But let’s agree with the BoE. 

He literally says in the quote that the BoE has to do it. You're trolling and it's boring.

[steviewevie]

42 minutes ago, lost said:

You've never moved for cheaper rent? I have.

Seriously I get why people with big mortgages don't want higher rates but the "wont someone think of the landlords angle" is stretching it a bit. The majority of rented property in this country isn't mortgaged

it wasn't the landlords...it was rising rents that was the issue.

[steviewevie]

46 minutes ago, cellar said:

They are making a difference - prices are coming down. Its just as others are saying, it turns out they should have raised interest rates higher and faster to begin with, so the impact isn't being felt as much as we would all like. I actually thought it was a bit of a coin flip whenever they raised it to 4% - I was wrong about that in hindsight (as in it was a much more necessary decision to do it).

I think its been discussed before, but in terms of the BoE, raising interest rates is their only tool to fight inflation, as they can't control supply side issues. Its not nice, but there isn't an alternative for them - it would have to be government doing something.

yeah, but main reason prices are coming down are wholesale energy prices have come down...I get why they raise them as they need to also do stuff on demand side to get inflation down...but mostly it has been driven by supply side stuff first from covid/china and then Russia/Ukraine. If they had raised them faster/harder then maybe inflation would have started coming down a bit quicker, or maybe it wouldn't have and we would be now facing a recession.

Edited May 11, 2023 by steviewevie

[lost]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it wasn't the landlords...it was rising rents that was the issue.

 Which is a separate market. If you want further proof look at yoy increases in interest on mortgages vs increase in rents. No corelation.

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, lost said:

 Which is a separate market. If you want further proof look at yoy increases in interest on mortgages vs increase in rents. No corelation.

I'm not arguing that it isn't a separate market (although I think it isn't)...but the assumption that Ozanne/me were against rate rises because of difficulties for landlords. I mean, we all hate landlords right, scum of the earth. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by steviewevie

[lost]

14 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I mean, we all hate landlords right, scum of the earth. 

Yep and thats good that we are now on the same page. According to national statics landlords are taking a real haircut at the moment. They haven't even be able to raise rents in line with 11% inflation let alone their costs if say they have been on a tracker mortgage:

Rents have gotten cheaper in real terms:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/indexofprivatehousingrentalprices/march2023#:~:text=Private rental prices paid by,12 months to March 2023.

Quote

Private rental prices paid by tenants in the UK rose by 4.9% in the 12 months to March 2023

 

 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it wasn't the landlords...it was rising rents that was the issue.

Yes that’s it.

I’m really not sure why some people are so in favour of rate hikes when it clearly makes people poorer. It affects everyone from home owners, to landlords, to renters. It’s not fair on the vast majority of people. 

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, lost said:

Yep and thats good that we are now on the same page. According to national statics landlords are taking a real haircut at the moment. They haven't even be able to raise rents in line with 11% inflation let alone their costs if say they have been on a tracker mortgage:

Rents have gotten cheaper in real terms:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/indexofprivatehousingrentalprices/march2023#:~:text=Private rental prices paid by,12 months to March 2023.

 

 

cool. Might start renting.

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes that’s it.

I’m really not sure why some people are so in favour of rate hikes when it clearly makes people poorer. It affects everyone from home owners, to landlords, to renters. It’s not fair on the vast majority of people. 

sadism?

or the hope that it will bring down house prices so they can get on the ladder?

[steviewevie]

...or maybe the actual belief that interest rates are the best tool to bring down inflation which is a disaster in so many ways,

[cellar]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but main reason prices are coming down are wholesale energy prices have come down...I get why they raise them as they need to also do stuff on demand side to get inflation down...but mostly it has been driven by supply side stuff first from covid/china and then Russia/Ukraine. If they had raised them faster/harder then maybe inflation would have started coming down a bit quicker, or maybe it wouldn't have and we would be now facing a recession.

I don't think you can say that "mostly it has been driven by supply side stuff" - raising interest rates has a direct impact on inflation, so as has been mentioned, we don't know what inflation would have been if rates has been set higher or lower. Changes in the supply side will be one factor, but its multi-faceted. 

I don't think you really disagree with the underlying point though, you're just arguing for the sake of it. Or do you actually think the BoE sat down in a board room one day and said "What can we do to make sure everyone gets poorer?"?