news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

Apparently this inquiry is going to go on for years, and is split into various module which Hallett will report her findings on at the end of each...first one is on our preparedness for the pandemic so could highlight how austerity f**ked us before it even got going...more here:

Structure of the Inquiry - UK Covid-19 Inquiry (covid19.public-inquiry.uk) 

[steviewevie]

6 hours ago, Neil said:

i don't think theres enough in eat out to help out to damage sunak. it was quite a logical policy, which many people used and any covid spreading was too minor to see in the graphs of the time.

well, it might come out in the run up to the next election, and will still be dredging up stuff he'd probably rather not talk about...saying he was following the science when in fact he was ignoring it.

[lost]

Not enough people were leaving the restaurant by a different door they went in and wearing their masks going to the toilet as you could only catch the virus standing up.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

The guardian may think eat out to help out will cause Sunak problems, I’m not convinced. I don’t think the public will really care if they didn’t seek scientific advice, or if covid cases rose. They have risen and fallen so many times since, I don’t think people will see this a big issue.

The question is will the public be bothered about the waste of tax payers money. I suspect it won’t change many minds. Any thought that we should have been more restrictive won’t resonate with the public who already have covid fatigue. The only thing that will resonate is if evidence suggests we should have been less restrictive wasn’t followed.

It’s probably not only about the policy but about the types of messages being sent when they were formulating the policy. As we saw with Matt Hancock’s messages, the language that was used at the time wasn’t very respectful of people so I imagine Sunak might also have this in mind as well.

There’s probably messages that explain how Eat Out to Help Out was a key driver in the build up to the 2nd lockdown too.

[steviewevie]

22 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s probably not only about the policy but about the types of messages being sent when they were formulating the policy. As we saw with Matt Hancock’s messages, the language that was used at the time wasn’t very respectful of people so I imagine Sunak might also have this in mind as well.

There’s probably messages that explain how Eat Out to Help Out was a key driver in the build up to the 2nd lockdown too.

well this is the issue with using whatsapp...this has replaced some of what would normally just be verbal and not on any record, but now it is, and was especially back then because of covid...so I'm kind of willing to cut them some slack with some of that (although others might not!)....but if Sunak ignored or didn't seek advice from SAGE or whatever on his eat out to help out scheme and covid cases rose because of it which led to more death etc then that could damage him, especially as he came out of the whole covid thing very well with both eat out to help out and furlough...and he really milked it with his glossy self promotion ads.

There's other stuff too...him pushing back against lockdowns or restrictions in autumn/winter...getting alternative views from various people at spectator etc...maybe he doesn't want this stuff to come out, but I'm sure will be part of the inquiry anyway. Trouble is by blocking this stuff he is just going to increase the focus on it so not sure why he's doing it. Just be open about it (unless it's really bad and he infact invented covid to kill old people because they're such a burden etc)

Edited June 4, 2023 by steviewevie

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

well this is the issue with using whatsapp...this has replaced some of what would normally just be verbal and not on any record, but now it is, and was especially back then because of covid...so I'm kind of willing to cut them some slack so some of that (within reason)....but if Sunak ignored or didn't seak advice from SAGE or whatever on his eat out to help out scheme and covid cases rose because of it which led to more death etc then that could damage him, especially as he came out of covid very well with both eat out to help out and furlough...and he milked it with his glossy self promotion ads.

There's other stuff too...him pushing back against lockdowns or restrictions in autumn/winter...getting alternative views from various people at spectator etc...maybe he doesn't want this stuff to come out, but I'm sure will be part of it. Trouble is by blocking this stuff he is just going to increase the focus on it, not sure why they're doing it. Just be open about it (unless it's really bad and he infact invented covid to kill old people because they're such a burden etc)

Sunak also had those clown scientists in to try to convince Johnson against a 2nd lockdown, that delay then meant we had to have a longer lockdown as a result. These messages will show Sunak has such poor judgement and decision making in a crises. 

[Neil]

just spent half an hour looking at house porn - in the area i'm from (just to see what houses prices are there now!), because i expanded the area i ended up with a few billionaire mansions in st George's hill, Weybridge - the most expensive address in the country residents have included russian billionaires, john lennon(white piano, white rolls royce), cliff richard, and more.

nice job if you've got £18M to spend on a house

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=STATION^9968&maxPrice=20000000&radius=0.5&propertyTypes=&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=#prop132021563

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Sunak also had those clown scientists in to try to convince Johnson against a 2nd lockdown, that delay then meant we had to have a longer lockdown as a result. These messages will show Sunak has such poor judgement and decision making in a crises. 

yes, that's what I meant by spectator lot...there was a whole bunch with alternative views...but he could just be open, he was chancellor and he could argue he was trying to find ways to limit damage to the economy etc...but not sure that will wash with the public so maybe why he doesn't want to go there.

Edited June 4, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

just spent half an hour looking at house porn - in the area i'm from (just to see what houses prices are there now!), because i expanded the area i ended up with a few billionaire mansions in st George's hill, Weybridge - the most expensive address in the country residents have included russian billionaires, john lennon(white piano, white rolls royce), cliff richard, and more.

nice job if you've got £18M to spend on a house

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=STATION^9968&maxPrice=20000000&radius=0.5&propertyTypes=&includeSSTC=false&mustHave=&dontShow=&furnishTypes=&keywords=#prop132021563

quite like the look of that 18mill one, might book a viewing.

[steviewevie]

quite like this one too

12 bedroom detached house for sale in Denham Place, Denham, Buckinghamshire, UB9 5BL, UB9 (rightmove.co.uk)

[steviewevie]

and maybe an apartment for the weekend

5 bedroom apartment for sale in One Hyde Park, Knightsbridge, SW1X (rightmove.co.uk)

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, that's what I meant by spectator lot...there was a whole bunch with alternative views...but he could just be open, he was chancellor and he could argue he was trying to find ways to limit damage to the economy etc...but not sure that will wash with the public so maybe why he doesn't want to go there.

Yeah I don’t think it’ll wash either. He could argue that but we ended up having the worst of both worlds; longer lockdown and sh*t economy. Good job Sunak. 

[Neil]

51 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and maybe an apartment for the weekend

5 bedroom apartment for sale in One Hyde Park, Knightsbridge, SW1X (rightmove.co.uk)

you'd have the fake sheik as a neighbour.

[Neil]

55 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

quite like the look of that 18mill one, might book a viewing.

betheres a few footballers on st georges hill as the chelsea training ground is just down the road, plenty of other great houses round there too. this is the surrey bankers belt 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

It’s probably not only about the policy but about the types of messages being sent when they were formulating the policy. As we saw with Matt Hancock’s messages, the language that was used at the time wasn’t very respectful of people so I imagine Sunak might also have this in mind as well.

There’s probably messages that explain how Eat Out to Help Out was a key driver in the build up to the 2nd lockdown too.

I think you need to be mindful of where the article is coming from and the Guardian ultra cautious approach is probably every bit (possibly more) as out of touch with public opinion as the Spectator.

My suspicion is anything from the enquiry that states we should have been more restrictive, the public (in general) will just ignore the science, think about (in general) how mild covid was when they caught it and not worth the sacrifice they made to personal freedom. 
 

I agree language could be an issue if it suggests any level of hypocrisy or looking down on the public.  

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

yes, that's what I meant by spectator lot...there was a whole bunch with alternative views...but he could just be open, he was chancellor and he could argue he was trying to find ways to limit damage to the economy etc...but not sure that will wash with the public so maybe why he doesn't want to go there.

I think the public can be persuaded with the argument of finding the balance between restricting covid without hurting the economy and also the mental health of those locked down. It’s such a difficult balance to make when you try and combine the science and the politics.

[Ryan1984]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think you need to be mindful of where the article is coming from and the Guardian ultra cautious approach is probably every bit (possibly more) as out of touch with public opinion as the Spectator.

My suspicion is anything from the enquiry that states we should have been more restrictive, the public (in general) will just ignore the science, think about (in general) how mild covid was when they caught it and not worth the sacrifice they made to personal freedom. 
 

I agree language could be an issue if it suggests any level of hypocrisy or looking down on the public.  

I think a lot of people are ‘over it’ now and there’s some kind of denial over what we went through/the conspiracy theorists are coming to the fore.

[lost]

The big issue for me is excess death is currently running as high as it was during covid and nobody appears to give a sh*t as the deaths are not first item on the news.

[lost]

Good article here:

 

[steviewevie]

22 minutes ago, lost said:

Good article here:

 

yep, they've done their inquiry...not as wide in remit as ours though...and probably were in a better place to start with in coping...but inquiry found approach broadly right but should have been stricter in closing places etc at the start

[Crazyfool01]

30 minutes ago, lost said:

The big issue for me is excess death is currently running as high as it was during covid and nobody appears to give a sh*t as the deaths are not first item on the news.

people do give a sh*t about mental health services being decimated and the NHS being screwed ... the  excess deaths are part of that .

[steviewevie]

44 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think the public can be persuaded with the argument of finding the balance between restricting covid without hurting the economy and also the mental health of those locked down. It’s such a difficult balance to make when you try and combine the science and the politics.

yeah...so Sunak is going to make that argument after the findings? Why not make it then...or now?

[lost]

3 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

people do give a sh*t about mental health services being decimated and the NHS being screwed ... the  excess deaths are part of that .

Not just the UK.

[Crazyfool01]

Any govt trying to impose any kind of lockdowns in the future from other pandemics will struggle because of the massive failures and utter corruption from this horrendous govt ... 

[steviewevie]

34 minutes ago, lost said:

The big issue for me is excess death is currently running as high as it was during covid and nobody appears to give a sh*t as the deaths are not first item on the news.

because everything is f**ked. NHS struggling, f**ked soclal care, inequality, cost of living...and some people still dying of covid.