news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Three to lose is a big ask though 

yes...but expectation so high for tories to get trounced...if they manage to hang on to one of them that could change the narrative...

I have no idea what polling is saying.

[Guest]

Polling by JL Partners showed Labour 12 points ahead in Shelby and 8 ahead in Uxbridge. 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

 

I disagree with the labour leadership about this. Labour should be fighting to support vulnerable groups. I don’t believe the cap stops many people from having 3 kids, so let’s not put those kids at a disadvantage straight away. Even if they don’t like the optics of getting rid completely, they could increase to 3 or 4 which at least would be a move in the right direction.

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I disagree with the labour leadership about this. Labour should be fighting to support vulnerable groups. I don’t believe the cap stops many people from having 3 kids, so let’s not put those kids at a disadvantage straight away. Even if they don’t like the optics of getting rid completely, they could increase to 3 or 4 which at least would be a move in the right direction.

the policy is a f**king disgrace and of course labour should be reversing it.

But it might upset the mail and we can't have that.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

the policy is a f**king disgrace and of course labour should be reversing it.

But it might upset the mail and we can't have that.

I think the Corbyn period has made the Labour leadership over cautious. I do however feel that when in power labour will do a bit more then they are saying now.

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think the Corbyn period has made the Labour leadership over cautious. I do however feel that when in power labour will do a bit more then they are saying now.

corbyn was big damage cos he and his supporters are so self-unaware.

[steviewevie]

ok...I am not the biggest corbyn fan...but not sure I can see the justification for blaming him and his supporters for labour not reversing this sh*t policy. It's cruel, it hurts the poorest more. I mean, what is labour for anyway?

[Guest]

 

 

[steviewevie]

I still hope Labour win and will vote for them in the hope that they do bring some positive changes and at least something a bit progressive...but they are making it very hard for me to get that enthusiastic or even hopeful at the moment. 

[steviewevie]

32 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think the Corbyn period has made the Labour leadership over cautious. I do however feel that when in power labour will do a bit more then they are saying now.

Not sure it's just the corbyn period...but all those defeats in the past, especially 92...that one goes deep....and is why Blair/Brown pivoted Labour away from the left in order to win...and to be fair it was very successful. 

I just feel (and maybe I'm wrong), that country is in a different place now. We need a different direction.

[Guest]

Yes the country is in a different place, it's in a worse place meaning Labour won't be able to do everything they would want to do.

They offered a different direction in 2017/19 and the public rejected it; so they have to do something different.

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

31 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes the country is in a different place, it's in a worse place meaning Labour won't be able to do everything they would want to do.

They offered a different direction in 2017/19 and the public rejected it; so they have to do something different.

Yep, valid point..I get that. But even then things were very different.. Brexit, Corbyn, Johnson..and we'd had austerity but a lot of people still felt ok due to low inflation and interest rates and a booming housing market...all that gone now.

[steviewevie]

Anyway, labour will have to get some things improving or they won't win that 2nd term.

[pink_triangle]

48 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I still hope Labour win and will vote for them in the hope that they do bring some positive changes and at least something a bit progressive...but they are making it very hard for me to get that enthusiastic or even hopeful at the moment. 

In the last 2 election there were many enthusiastic Jez fans voted, but that didn’t translate to seats. Labour want to build a coalition to win an election and if that blunts some people’s enthusiasm then as long as they vote it may be worth it.

When Starmer made pledges to win the labour leadership I saw it for what it was and knew he would move toward the centre . At the same time I see his strategy as one to win power with the view he will move leftwards in power.

I take a lot of the policy discussion with a pinch of salt at the moment. I think it’s more important to look at the character and I think Starmer is in it for the right reasons.

 

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

In the last 2 election there were many enthusiastic Jez fans voted, but that didn’t translate to seats. Labour want to build a coalition to win an election and if that blunts some people’s enthusiasm then as long as they vote it may be worth it.

When Starmer made pledges to win the labour leadership I saw it for what it was and knew he would move toward the centre . At the same time I see his strategy as one to win power with the view he will move leftwards in power.

I take a lot of the policy discussion with a pinch of salt at the moment. I think it’s more important to look at the character and I think Starmer is in it for the right reasons.

 

In it for the right reasons is to win power and then use that power to change things.nothing happens without power.

[Neil]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yep, valid point..I get that. But even then things were very different.. Brexit, Corbyn, Johnson..and we'd had austerity but a lot of people still felt ok due to low inflation and interest rates and a booming housing market...all that gone now.

Just think without Corbyn it might have been no brexit. A leader who wasnt suggesting it was ok to side with Tory nutters would have made a difference.

[Ryan1984]

20 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

In the last 2 election there were many enthusiastic Jez fans voted, but that didn’t translate to seats. Labour want to build a coalition to win an election and if that blunts some people’s enthusiasm then as long as they vote it may be worth it.

When Starmer made pledges to win the labour leadership I saw it for what it was and knew he would move toward the centre . At the same time I see his strategy as one to win power with the view he will move leftwards in power.

I take a lot of the policy discussion with a pinch of salt at the moment. I think it’s more important to look at the character and I think Starmer is in it for the right reasons.

 

This is how I feel. He’s trying to appeal to the Sun and Mail lot, who can throw their toys out the pram at issues that don’t directly affect their lives (trans people, small boats, the BBC!!!) in any way. Unfortunately that means a little bit of sinking to their level to win an election. Then we might see some progression. Would Corbyn have had him in his cabinet if he was the Tory some claim on here?

[steviewevie]

23 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

In the last 2 election there were many enthusiastic Jez fans voted, but that didn’t translate to seats. Labour want to build a coalition to win an election and if that blunts some people’s enthusiasm then as long as they vote it may be worth it.

When Starmer made pledges to win the labour leadership I saw it for what it was and knew he would move toward the centre . At the same time I see his strategy as one to win power with the view he will move leftwards in power.

I take a lot of the policy discussion with a pinch of salt at the moment. I think it’s more important to look at the character and I think Starmer is in it for the right reasons.

 

ok...so you think he's just going to reverse what he's saying now when in office and everyone will go oh...silly us for believing Starmer...?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Just think without Corbyn it might have been no brexit. A leader who wasnt suggesting it was ok to side with Tory nutters would have made a difference.

here we go again...blaming corbyn for brexit.

There are many reasons for brexit...it isn't down to corbyn.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

In it for the right reasons is to win power and then use that power to change things.nothing happens without power.

I get this, and I have defended Starmer many times on here for that very reason. Just feel it's going too far now.

[steviewevie]

Ok, they aren't going to nationalise public utilities, I am not so idelogical that this is a problem...but public services are screaming out for more investment, they're f**ked...and now the line is there is no more money...but we'll reform. But what the f**k does that even mean? It's like a get out of jail card. It's ok, we'll reform it. Simple.

[pink_triangle]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok...so you think he's just going to reverse what he's saying now when in office and everyone will go oh...silly us for believing Starmer...?

I don’t think most of the electorate are paying attention to what Starmer is saying now. I think he is going to be as vague and non commital as possible. I believe in power he will use the power for good.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I don’t think most of the electorate are paying attention to what Starmer is saying now. I think he is going to be as vague and non commital as possible. I believe in power he will use the power for good.

ok. I guess I will have to ignore everything he says and just "believe".

[pink_triangle]

Just now, steviewevie said:

ok. I guess I will have to ignore everything he says and just "believe".

I think you can get an idea about general direction of travel. I think most of the electorate won’t be examining policy in detail when they vote.