news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

If New Labour did so well, and the reason that everything has gone to sh*t is that the tories came in and cut spending, how does New New Labour suppose they’ll get things back on track without increasing spending?

How can they increase spending without causing a truss style f**k up. If you were listening to starmer instead of making it up, starmer says he'll increase spending Vis an increased tax take due to growth.almost truss like but without uncosted spending.

[cellar]

To be clear, I don't think Ozanne and Neil claim to be left, do they? 

A 2-child policy is gross, didn't that get announced otherwise same day as something to do with Trump? Trying to fly it in under the radar, even the Tories knew it was a horrible policy. 

But yeah, I think actual left have to just suck up Centre Labour... Easier to swallow than the Tories sure, but still disappointing. The blind fanaticism is a little bit trickier to put up with.

Also the point about not being up in arms about Uni Courses vs children in poverty... Not sure if that was a genuine attempt at an argument, but I absolutely would support whatever batshit policy the Tories are coming out with over Universities if it meant scrapping the 2-child policy. Like it's not even a difficult "would you rather?" 

[Neil]

24 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Indeed, New Labour did a good job all round with poverty, sadly the Tories came back in and that hard work was undone. 

Starmers labour won't be perfection but they'll make a  difference to the most f**ked up things. There's too much that needs doing for them to do it all. But they can make improvements in places.

[fraybentos1]

28 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Indeed, New Labour did a good job all round with poverty, sadly the Tories came back in and that hard work was undone. 

You want to keep the current Tory policies! 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, cellar said:

To be clear, I don't think Ozanne and Neil claim to be left, do they? 

A 2-child policy is gross, didn't that get announced otherwise same day as something to do with Trump? Trying to fly it in under the radar, even the Tories knew it was a horrible policy. 

But yeah, I think actual left have to just suck up Centre Labour... Easier to swallow than the Tories sure, but still disappointing. The blind fanaticism is a little bit trickier to put up with.

Also the point about not being up in arms about Uni Courses vs children in poverty... Not sure if that was a genuine attempt at an argument, but I absolutely would support whatever batshit policy the Tories are coming out with over Universities if it meant scrapping the 2-child policy. Like it's not even a difficult "would you rather?" 

I claim to be left wing.

 But I don't think that's defined by an opinion on the realities of the one child cap.actusl left have to suck up what their selfish pursuit of hard left caused. Take responsibility for the damage you caused.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Starmers labour won't be perfection but they'll make a  difference to the most f**ked up things. There's too much that needs doing for them to do it all. But they can make improvements in places.

Labour can’t spend all their time repealing Tory policies as there’s only a finite amount of Parliamentary time available. If they did then they wouldn’t get any of their own plans done, people would unsurprisingly moan and the Tories would get back in off the back of claiming Labour have done nothing.

So as I said earlier Labour have to use the time wisely and any changes to bad Tory policies need to put in with their wider plans such as this revamp to UC involving any help for children etc. It is fairly nuanced but they can do both. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

You want to keep the current Tory policies! 

You want to play policy bingo where you get to choose your wants without ever making them possible.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Neil

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Neil said:

You want to play policy bongo where you get to choose your wants without ever making them possible.

i'm wanting to repeal one damaging policy and go back to what it was like under new labour. You know, the government you said did lots of good regarding poverty

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

I claim to be left wing.

 

you aren't though, sorry!

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

you aren't though, sorry!

I am I just don't have your sh*t way of defining it  I can dream all I like but I recognise reality.

[Guest]

Just now, Neil said:

I am I just don't have your sh*t way of defining it  I can dream all I like but I recognise reality.

He clearly doesn’t understand what ‘left’ means so he lashes out with insults. 

[cellar]

You both (or at least, Ozanne does) seem to support everything Starmer comes out with though, and Starmer is clearly playing to the Centre. I think you've both even argued that he has to in order to win the election.

So, if you're really left, you could accept that some of the things hes doing are really not left at all, and that they're disappointing, but you're okay accepting them in favour of a greater good. 

Or if you really do support everything he's doing... Then just accept you're Centrists. There's nothing wrong with that.

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

I am I just don't have your sh*t way of defining it  I can dream all I like but I recognise reality.

it's a 'dream' to want to get rid of the two child cap? that's your argument? embarrassing. it's only been in effect since 2017 for f**ks sake. you're honestly just thick as f**k.

[fraybentos1]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He clearly doesn’t understand what ‘left’ means so he lashes out with insults. 

what does it mean to you? supporting everything starmer says and backing tory policies when it suits you. you honestly don't have a clue ozanne. you live in a bubble, a very sad and lonely one by the looks of things.

[Neil]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

it's a 'dream' to want to get rid of the two child cap? that's your argument? embarrassing. it's only been in effect since 2017 for f**ks sake. you're honestly just thick as f**k.

Nationalise everything including your private pension. Is that left wing enough for you, would pay for removing the two child cap too.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, cellar said:

You both (or at least, Ozanne does) seem to support everything Starmer comes out with though, and Starmer is clearly playing to the Centre. I think you've both even argued that he has to in order to win the election.

So, if you're really left, you could accept that some of the things hes doing are really not left at all, and that they're disappointing, but you're okay accepting them in favour of a greater good. 

Or if you really do support everything he's doing... Then just accept you're Centrists. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't support everything he's doing but he's the only player in town since the last guy sawed his own nuts off.

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

it's a 'dream' to want to get rid of the two child cap? that's your argument? embarrassing. it's only been in effect since 2017 for f**ks sake. you're honestly just thick as f**k.

It's clearly not the greatest priority, other changes can have greater effect, I defer to the professionals to prioritise stuff. And I don't say do it while being too stupid to say how to pay for it.

[cellar]

5 minutes ago, Neil said:

I don't support everything he's doing but he's the only player in town since the last guy sawed his own nuts off.

I don't know if that's a movie reference or something, but lol.

[fraybentos1]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

Nationalise everything including your private pension. Is that left wing enough for you, would pay for removing the two child cap too.

You’re putting words in my mouth. I haven’t said to nationalise anything! Also I don’t have a private pension. You’ve honestly lost the plot.

[cellar]

Although I do think it would be very easy to remove the 2 child policy, and it should be a priority. If those polls are anything to go by though, and the country doesn't support it, then hey... I guess I'm not surprised. But that's just more confirmation of the sh*tty situation we find ourselves in.

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

It's clearly not the greatest priority, other changes can have greater effect, I defer to the professionals to prioritise stuff. And I don't say do it while being too stupid to say how to pay for it.

Name some greater priorities please and how they’ll be paid for! I’m all ears. You still haven’t provided a single bit of evidence to refute the article I sent with the figures lol. By your logic we can’t put an extra billion into anything cause it’ll crash the economy 😂😂

 

 

[fraybentos1]

Funny thing is @steviewevieis probs reading this and agreeing with everything I say but too scared to back me up. In fact you’re on this thread right now. Pipe up Stevie! You usually do 8 posts and hour 

[Guest]

Funny how some people can argue without insulting every post yet the poster that’s been called out before for bullying is incapable of doing so. Must be overcompensating for something. 

[fraybentos1]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Funny how some people can argue without insulting every post yet the poster that’s been called out before for bullying is incapable of doing so. Must be overcompensating for something. 

Did you not get banned for a week of the forums not long back? Maybe you’re the bully !

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Funny how some people can argue without insulting every post yet the poster that’s been called out before for bullying is incapable of doing so. Must be overcompensating for something. 

Also only you could be so dim as to call me out for being insulting and then using your last sentence as an insult. Clown.