news & politics:discussion

[zahidf]

3 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I would also argue that it’s an investment that will make savings in the future.

However I still think it’s reasonable to ask the question what is the most effective way to take people out of poverty. As I say removing the cap redistributes to middle and higher earners and does nothing for 1 and 2 children households. Is a targeted approach not possible?

Targeted approach would cost more though. If you're looking for value for money....

 

And if we are talking benefits, it wouldn't be the super rich would it? It'd be 'working poor' who'd still contribute to the economy more

[zahidf]

57 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Feels like labour are on the back foot and the Tories are in the march....all thanks to the stupid people of uxbridge.

Lol only on pundit land.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

‘Hands off our boilers’ 😂

What rubbish is that, who is that attached to their boiler!?

Believe it or not a lot of people are. Mine used to bang like hell but it was better than sex especially when used with my wonky washer.

But seriously it's all down to cost

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Feels like labour are on the back foot and the Tories are in the march....all thanks to the stupid people of uxbridge.

The swing from the Tories in the by-elections shows they are very much on the back foot. 

[philipsteak]

18 hours ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

An inside view of the refugee barge. I must admit the sleeping accommodation looks more than twice the size my son and myself had in our homeless hostel for 6 months.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66270811

We charge 100 quid a night for a room very much like that in the summer and at weekends

[steviewevie]

34 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The swing from the Tories in the by-elections shows they are very much on the back foot. 

yes, but that is how it feels in how press are reporting it and how labour and tories are reacting to it.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, but that is how it feels in how press are reporting it and how labour and tories are reacting to it.

That’s the political reality in this country, the media will always spin it more negatively to Labour.
 

I don’t think Labour are reacting to it that badly, are they? All they are saying is that lessons should be learned which isn’t too outrageous.

Also if the Tories want to assume this means things are better than polling indicates then let them, that complacency will only enhance their defeat. 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That’s the political reality in this country, the media will always spin it more negatively to Labour.
 

I don’t think Labour are reacting to it that badly, are they? All they are saying is that lessons should be learned which isn’t too outrageous.

Also if the Tories want to assume this means things are better than polling indicates then let them, that complacency will only enhance their defeat. 

all this talk about ulez...as if that's the no.1 issue affecting the whole country...and also tories feel like they can get labour on populist stuff now...

[cellar]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That’s the political reality in this country, the media will always spin it more negatively to Labour.
 

I don’t think Labour are reacting to it that badly, are they? All they are saying is that lessons should be learned which isn’t too outrageous.

Also if the Tories want to assume this means things are better than polling indicates then let them, that complacency will only enhance their defeat. 

I agree with this actually. If Labour are trying to learn lessons from what is a very significant victory, then that's a very measured response.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, cellar said:

I agree with this actually. If Labour are trying to learn lessons from what is a very significant victory, then that's a very measured response.

and lesson is what....voters don't like paying for green crap?

[steviewevie]

so tories feel they can attack them on splashing out on all this net zero stuff, as well as other stuff like trans issues etc...culture war stuff...so watch labour get all sh*t scared and pivot more to the right on social/green policies. And it's probably not necessary as no.1 issue is cost of living and the damage is done.

[cellar]

27 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and lesson is what....voters don't like paying for green crap?

My point wasn't about the lesson, just that you called out Labour's reaction as making it seem like they're on the back foot, and I think that actually coming out and saying that lessons need to be learned even when they've had great success is very strong.

But if there is a lesson to be learned, it's probably about trying to change the dialogue a bit. I don't think Labour want to sacrifice their green commitments, so they can try to learn from it  hopefully.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

28 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and lesson is what....voters don't like paying for green crap?

No.

Am I right in assuming you are in the Gt Manc area? Remember the Congestion Charge referendum. That result was a major turning point for me. People just don't give s f**k.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

No.

Am I right in assuming you are in the Gt Manc area? Remember the Congestion Charge referendum. That result was a major turning point for me. People just don't give s f**k.

yes, I do remember that. Never ask the people.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, cellar said:

My point wasn't about the lesson, just that you called out Labour's reaction as making it seem like they're on the back foot, and I think that actually coming out and saying that lessons need to be learned even when they've had great success is very strong.

But if there is a lesson to be learned, it's probably about trying to change the dialogue a bit. I don't think Labour want to sacrifice their green commitments, so they can try to learn from it  hopefully.

fingers crossed.

Not confident personally. 

Or personally confident.

[Neil]

5 hours ago, zahidf said:

Well if you want to fight child poverty, you're going to have spend some money. Ending the cap would be easiest and most costs effective way

There's no free way of doing it.

there's no way of doing it without creating a negative impact somewhere else.

[Neil]

4 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

. I have no doubt that removing the cap would bring people out of poverty.

i do, :- poverty is caused by  more than lack of money - also by a lack of wanting to do better.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

all this talk about ulez...as if that's the no.1 issue affecting the whole country...and also tories feel like they can get labour on populist stuff now...

Are Labour talking about ULEZ that much or is it mainly the media? Which as I say isn’t a surprise at all.

If the Tories want to attack Labour on woke stiff then it shows how clueless they are given mortgages and rents are increasing. I don’t think the public will really care.

All Labour need to do now is stay calm but learn lessons from the by-elections which hopefully includes better comms. 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and lesson is what....voters don't like paying for green crap?

I’d say the lesson should be a comms one, they needed to explain ULEZ better, explain how it doesn’t really impact many people and how the Tories forced it in.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Ozanne said:

‘Hands off our boilers’ 😂

What rubbish is that, who is that attached to their boiler!?

like ulez its a green policy that makes joe public spend their money on something they don't think they need.

[cellar]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

fingers crossed.

Not confident personally. 

Or personally confident.

I'm very confident Labour will win the next election, I'm just not confident it will bring many of the changes I would like to see.

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’d say the lesson should be a comms one, they needed to explain ULEZ better, explain how it doesn’t really impact many people and how the Tories forced it in.

But again, agree with this. If anything, it just shows there's no room for complacency or assumptions when it comes to this sort of stuff.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Neil said:

there's no way of doing it without creating a negative impact somewhere else.

yeah...through a tax on someone who can afford it. It's called redistribution...but this policy gets to the crux of the problems with redistribution in democracies...people don't like paying for other people's children...especially after all the scrounger crap spewed from certain newspapers over the years.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, zahidf said:

Targeted approach would cost more though. If you're looking for value for money....

 

And if we are talking benefits, it wouldn't be the super rich would it? It'd be 'working poor' who'd still contribute to the economy more

You probably couldn’t go into an election campaign saying it, but surely increasing universal credit payments would get more out of poverty than removing the child benefit cap?

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Are Labour talking about ULEZ that much or is it mainly the media? Which as I say isn’t a surprise at all.

 

yes, they are. Starmer said it in his speech...and there's been loads of briefings attacking Khan (and Milliband).

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, cellar said:

I'm very confident Labour will win the next election, I'm just not confident it will bring many of the changes I would like to see

I'm not confident they won't row back on more stuff before the election, but we'll see.