news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Slave trade guilt.

Maybe but a step forwards with equality legislation.its Clifton that has the slave guilt.

[Neil]

The Chinese economy is f**ked and it's not coming back.

recession unavoidable.

[fraybentos1]

8 hours ago, Neil said:

The Chinese economy is f**ked and it's not coming back.

recession unavoidable.

For us or them … or both 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said:

For us or them … or both 

Both cos China has been driving the world economy.

 

[Neil]

Never trust an atom they make up anything.

[Nobody Interesting]

13 hours ago, Neil said:

increases for non-doms, private schools, and some other stuff.

 

 

Those increases have already be targeted on some policies - so where do they get any other funds?

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Those increases have already be targeted on some policies - so where do they get any other funds?

isn't there actually more money swishing around than expected (deficit not as big as forecast), which is why some tories are calling for Hunt to cut taxes?

[Nobody Interesting]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

isn't there actually more money swishing around than expected (deficit not as big as forecast), which is why some tories are calling for Hunt to cut taxes?

They ONLY borrowed £60.5 billion instead of the predicted £68 billion April to July. Debt as a % of GDP is over 100%, it was at around 80% a few years ago.

Imagine if we ran our finances like governments do!!

 

[steviewevie]

also, there's the magic money tree.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

They ONLY borrowed £60.5 billion instead of the predicted £68 billion April to July. Debt as a % of GDP is over 100%, it was at around 80% a few years ago.

Imagine if we ran our finances like governments do!!

 

well yeah...and cost of funding that debt has gone up.

They're going to have to put up taxes.

[steviewevie]

although as Lost pointed out with inflation and wage increases more people will be moving into higher tax bands...

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well yeah...and cost of funding that debt has gone up.

They're going to have to put up taxes.

and yet Labour say they will not put up taxes on the wealthy so, back to my question of yesterday, where the feck does the money come from? The top 5% now have 99% of the wealth and yet pay less % of tax than ever.

IMHO the whole system is broken and has been fumbling along for decades 'just about managing'. It really is about time that a system, GDP, that was never designed to be used in the way it is is scrapped and a proper system for measuring the health of a country is implemented - but red and blue will never do that as it works just fine for loads of those that fund their parties so they do not want to change it.

It is all why I say the UK needs real change - the same old same old will never work. How long do we need to try it to see that?

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

and yet Labour say they will not put up taxes on the wealthy so, back to my question of yesterday, where the feck does the money come from? The top 5% now have 99% of the wealth and yet pay less % of tax than ever.

IMHO the whole system is broken and has been fumbling along for decades 'just about managing'. It really is about time that a system, GDP, that was never designed to be used in the way it is is scrapped and a proper system for measuring the health of a country is implemented - but red and blue will never do that as it works just fine for loads of those that fund their parties so they do not want to change it.

It is all why I say the UK needs real change - the same old same old will never work. How long do we need to try it to see that?

Thatcherism was a big change.

Brexit was a big change.

Labour under Corbyn would have been a big change too.

I don't know, we do seem a bit screwed. Poorer,older, more unequal. Just have to see how labour get on when/if they get in.

[steviewevie]

..and as for labour, they will just say growth and reform when people ask them same questions ,but I think they will have to raise taxes because not sure where that growth is going to come from.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

Thatcherism was a big change.

Brexit was a big change.

Labour under Corbyn would have been a big change too.

I don't know, we do seem a bit screwed. Poorer,older, more unequal. Just have to see how labour get on when/if they get in.

Thatcherism was all about wealth and growth

Brexit was/is all about wealth and growth despite what they said

Corbyn Labour would have been some real change but certainly not all for the better by a long way.

When Labour get in - how long does the electorate give them? 5, 10, 15 years............ and when they decide it is not working they them return  blue lot again and nothing will ever change.

In my life the UK had one chance of 'real change' (but we will never know if it would have worked). 1982, the SDP were ahead in the polls. Then the Falklands happened.
Not saying I backed their politics but much of what they said was all about how the system was not right and needed to be changed.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

..and as for labour, they will just say growth and reform when people ask them same questions ,but I think they will have to raise taxes because not sure where that growth is going to come from.

Growth primarily comes from consumerism - and in the UK us lot eating and drinking too much.

As you say the population is older - so wants less - and the population now has less disposable income so will spend less.

The system is broken.

If we have to keep the broken system then the only way to do something for the long term is to have new and very different ideas and red and blue really do not have any and have not had any for a long time.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Nobody Interesting

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

When Labour get in - how long does the electorate give them? 5, 10, 15 years............ and when they decide it is not working they them return  blue lot again and nothing will ever change.

a lot will depend on state of tory party...if they go full natcon I reckon they will be out for quite a while.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Growth primarily comes from consumerism - and in the UK us lot eating and drinking too much.

As you say the population is older - so wants less - and the population now has less disposable income so will spend less.

The system is broken.

If we have to keep the broken system then the only way to do something for the long term is to have new and very different ideas and red and blue really do not have any and have not had any for a long time.

how about doughnut economics?

Doughnut | Kate Raworth

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

how about doughnut economics?

Doughnut | Kate Raworth

When I have time I shall read in depth.

[steviewevie]

more here

About Doughnut Economics | DEAL

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Growth primarily comes from consumerism - and in the UK us lot eating and drinking too much.

As you say the population is older - so wants less - and the population now has less disposable income so will spend less.

The system is broken.

If we have to keep the broken system then the only way to do something for the long term is to have new and very different ideas and red and blue really do not have any and have not had any for a long time.

it was recognised in govt, 30+ years ago, that the future was 'leisure' as long as there's appealing leisure options, things will tick on.

[Neil]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Sorry to disrupt the usual chin stroking over Labour...

More NHS cover ups...

Norfolk and Suffolk NHS trust deaths report 'watered down to spare bosses'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-66086388

NHS really has an accountability issue at the moment.

who knew that people tend to hide it when things go wrong. 😛

 

[Neil]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Thankfully we have journalists to expose it I suppose...

some gets exposed by the systems in place.

the hiding is just people being people (nothing about the nhs).

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its everything to do with the NHS because its happening in the NHS over and over again.  It happened Lewis Letby, it happened with the baby deaths at multiple trusts, it happened with the baby organ scandal and so on and so on...

 

happens under labour govts and tory govts, its flaws with people not flaws with the nhs.

 

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Nice bit of deflection you wouldn't apply to organisations you don't like.

i hate prejudicial bollocks whoever its aimed at.

[Neil]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

How is this prejudicial ? 

you're blaming the flaws of people onto an organisation, that's not responsible for those people's actions.

you're only posting to slur the nhs, not for any constructive reason.

 

Just now, Barry Fish said:

 

I would be speaking out if it was the police.   I doubt you would offer the same defence ?   

i could bang on all the time about the bad stuff that happens in the police, but i don't. because i recognise its people and nothing else.