news & politics:discussion

[Nobody Interesting]

25 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

You mention funding public transport in one paragraph then want hs2 scrapped in the next. 
 

So the U.K. should lag even further behind their peers in terms of high speed rail? High speed rail is an embarrassment in this country. Hs2 shouldn’t be scrapped it should go back to what it was meant to be then add further lines up to glasgow and Edinburgh. Every other country manages to do this stuff bar us 

Funding public transport that benefits the majority is one thing, HS2 is another that benefits few.

HS2 is also out of date technology and if the UK is going to have high speed rail then it should be instaliing something new not something decades out of date already. As for it extending, it never will, it will stop at Birmingham and would never have gone all the way north to Scotland.

and I shall repeat, if the former HS2 CEO says it is a waste of money then we are not qualified to argue against that. He really knows better than we do.

Public transport is needed for the whole of the public, not just a few on one railway line.

 

and yes, HS2 etc is an embarrassment, but to carry on regardless will likely end up an even bigger one.

[Nobody Interesting]

32 minutes ago, lost said:

I find it difficult to believe 75% of the roads we are building are pointless/not being used

Not what was said - 75% of the roads in the road building infrastructure plan are not needed/wanted is what was said.

Very different from what you and others went on to discuss and does not take any account of new roads on new housing estates etc............... it is large scaling infrastructure such as new trunk roads, new tunnels etc and most are not needed or wanted - find a project on the plan )on gov website), look at the councils response and look at campaigns against by locals and some at national levels too.

 

[fraybentos1]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

Not what was said - 75% of the roads in the road building infrastructure plan are not needed/wanted is what was said.

Very different from what you and others went on to discuss and does not take any account of new roads on new housing estates etc............... it is large scaling infrastructure such as new trunk roads, new tunnels etc and most are not needed or wanted - find a project on the plan )on gov website), look at the councils response and look at campaigns against by locals and some at national levels too.

 

If we only built stuff that councils and residents didn’t object to them f**k all would ever be built. Britain is full of wee nimby weasels who literally only care about themselves.

[fraybentos1]

10 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Funding public transport that benefits the majority is one thing, HS2 is another that benefits few.

HS2 is also out of date technology and if the UK is going to have high speed rail then it should be instaliing something new not something decades out of date already. As for it extending, it never will, it will stop at Birmingham and would never have gone all the way north to Scotland.

and I shall repeat, if the former HS2 CEO says it is a waste of money then we are not qualified to argue against that. He really knows better than we do.

Public transport is needed for the whole of the public, not just a few on one railway line.

 

and yes, HS2 etc is an embarrassment, but to carry on regardless will likely end up an even bigger one.

So build a better alrternative or just no high speed rail for the U.K.?

No doubt it’s been mismanaged but if Spain Germany and France can do stuff like this then I don’t see why we can’t.

It would also free up a lot of capacity for local services too. 

[lost]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

find a project on the plan )on gov website), look at the councils response and look at campaigns against by locals and some at national levels too.

 

Using that argument we shouldn't implement ULEZ or build any new houses. There are winners and losers from everything a government does.

For every kid who has asthma who is having to put up with cars queueing down a non fit road built during Victorian times with their engines on there is someone having their view ruined by the new bypass that cuts out the town.

Edited August 30, 2023 by lost

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

If we only built stuff that councils and residents didn’t object to them f**k all would ever be built. Britain is full of wee nimby weasels who literally only care about themselves.

Most of these have nothing to do with 'wee nimby weasels' and if you took the time to look at what I said then you would learn this. Many of the objections are from business#, some multi nationals - so hardly wee

[Nobody Interesting]

2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

So build a better alrternative or just no high speed rail for the U.K.?

No doubt it’s been mismanaged but if Spain Germany and France can do stuff like this then I don’t see why we can’t.

It would also free up a lot of capacity for local services too. 

I am not qualified to say what should be done so look at those who are, like the former CEO who says it is a waste of money.

As I say, he should know, and he will also know what might be a better idea.

If I have to have an opinion as an un-qualified person then I would always opt for the newest technology or some that is being created and get onboard such schemes. Spending vast sums of things already out of date is folly.

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Most of these have nothing to do with 'wee nimby weasels' and if you took the time to look at what I said then you would learn this. Many of the objections are from business#, some multi nationals - so hardly wee

Do you support the ulez in London? I reckon I could find plenty of complaints from businesses and individuals for that

[Nobody Interesting]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

Using that argument we shouldn't implement ULEZ or build any new houses. There are winners and losers from everything a government does.

For every kid who has asthma who is having to put up with cars queueing down a non fit road built during Victorian times with their engines on there is someone having their view ruined by the new bypass that cuts out the town.

If those I refer to were bypasses then OK - but they are not. They are things that wreck nature and more. Please do go and look at the plans.

The objections, as I have said, are not just from individuals, they are from businesses including multi nationals. 

The projects I am referring to are all huge things that do not do any of what you suggest - if anything they are 'vanity' projects so the UK can look good on the world stage and many objections are that money should be used for local bypasses etc.

The Infrastructure plan runs into thousands of pages so I cannot quote it all here - take some time to have  a read of what is being proposed and maybe you might see that what I am saying holds water.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, fraybentos1 said:

Do you support the ulez in London? I reckon I could find plenty of complaints from businesses and individuals for that

I shall answer that with ease - yes I do.

but that and ULEZ has diddly squat to do with the road building infrastructure plan - 2 very different things and as I just wrote to another person, many of the campaigns against are because they want the money spent of bypasses and local things, not huge vanity projects that nobody wants or really needs.

The plan is huge - take some time to read sections and maybe you will understand what I am saying, or maybe you won't.

[lost]

5 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

The objections, as I have said, are not just from individuals, they are from businesses including multi nationals. 

Ok so we should structure society by what multinationals want now? If multi nationals want zero percent corporation tax we should do that too!

 

Quote

The projects I am referring to are all huge things that do not do any of what you suggest - if anything they are 'vanity' projects so the UK can look good on the world stage and many objections are that money should be used for local bypasses etc.

The Infrastructure plan runs into thousands of pages so I cannot quote it all here - take some time to have  a read of what is being proposed and maybe you might see that what I am saying holds water.

So we've gone from 75% of roads to a very specific set of projects that I'm not going to let on what they are.

Edited August 30, 2023 by lost

[fraybentos1]

10 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I shall answer that with ease - yes I do.

but there are objections from locals and businesses!! 😱

Also I never mentioned anything about road building, I was only ever talking about HS2

[steviewevie]

38 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Funding public transport that benefits the majority is one thing, HS2 is another that benefits few.

HS2 is also out of date technology and if the UK is going to have high speed rail then it should be instaliing something new not something decades out of date already. As for it extending, it never will, it will stop at Birmingham and would never have gone all the way north to Scotland.

and I shall repeat, if the former HS2 CEO says it is a waste of money then we are not qualified to argue against that. He really knows better than we do.

Public transport is needed for the whole of the public, not just a few on one railway line.

 

and yes, HS2 etc is an embarrassment, but to carry on regardless will likely end up an even bigger one.

The country needs decent high speed rail but we couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery it seems.

[Neil]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I imagine there's a bigger demand for these sort of properties these days.

year there is, households are smaller than they used to be so there's more houses needed.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, fraybentos1 said:

but there are objections from locals and businesses!! 😱

Also I never mentioned anything about road building, I was only ever talking about HS2

You replied directly to a post where I started.....
""Not what was said - 75% of the roads in the road building infrastructure plan are not needed/wanted is what was said.""

What else am I supposed to think you are writing about?

I do notice though you make no mention of the bulk of my reply - I know many like to make a point and say nothing more but seriosuly, if you have thoughts on what I have said then to me it is clear you do not know about the Infrastructure Plan and what it is all about, I really do recommened reading about it, you will be amazed about what is in there.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, lost said:

Ok so we should structure society by what multinationals want now? If multi nationals want zero percent corporation tax we should do that too!

 

So we've gone from 75% of roads to a very specific set of projects that I'm not going to let on what they are.

Oh dear. Sometimes trying to have  a sensible conversation is hard.

You are claiming I said things which I did not, I am just pointing out who is objecting and have not at any point suggested we back don to them all.

and the later part, I did write that the document is very long and detailed and too big to show all here, but you decided to ignore that part and pretend I said I would not tell you.

I am happy to discuss but if you decide to read what is obviously not there then I see little point in repeating myself.

The Governments Infrastructure Plan is vast and detailed, I really do suggest people read what they intend to do with our money and what they intend not to do................. you really would learn lots but I am not going to spend time writing it all here nor summarising it for you. Want to know what it says? Then read it.

[Nobody Interesting]

To save you all having to search for them here are some starter documents about the Infrastructure plans. These are far from the whole detail, those run into thousands of pages and several White Papers but have a read and then you might start to follow what I have posted before. Then, rather than ignore 90% of a post, and select one part of  a sentence out of context we can have a chat if you want. Though I don't hold out much hope of any reasonable replies to this let alone anything being fully read.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transforming-infrastructure-performance-roadmap-to-2030/transforming-infrastructure-performance-roadmap-to-2030#implementation-and-next-steps

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938539/NIS_Report_Web_Accessible.pdf (this has numerous updates all available from the gov website

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938049/NIS_final_web_single_page.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016759/Analysis_of_the_National_Infrastructure_and_Construction_Pipeline_2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/520086/2904569_nidp_deliveryplan.pdf This too has numerous updates available

Heaven help us when the important details are on page 2 of any election leaflets as most will never read that far.

[lost]

8 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 I am not going to spend time writing it all here nor summarising it for you. 

But your writing huge paragraphs and this would only take 1 sentence? total spend. 75% percent of total spend and the projects that you'd cancel that are made up of that 75%?

[Nobody Interesting]

9 minutes ago, lost said:

But your writing huge paragraphs and this would only take 1 sentence? total spend. 75% percent of total spend and the projects that you'd cancel that are made up of that 75%?

LOL 1 sentence.

I refer you to my last post full of links - if you can summarise them in 1 sentence I will be very impressed indeed!

As for what I would cancel - I have never mentioned what I would do, I am talking about communities, businesses etc I have never talked directly about what I would do - I was merely saying at the start that Billions could be saved if things that are not needed or wanted are not done. You seem to have read much more into that then was ever meant.

Anyway, I look forward to your summary of all those links, including the many document updates, in one simple sentence. I guesstimate the total is over 5000 pages including the updates and White Papers and so an awful lot more than the 'huge paragraphs' you say I am writing.

Enjoy reading and summarising, I can't wait to see it.

[lost]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

LOL 1 sentence.

I refer you to my last post full of links - if you can summarise them in 1 sentence I will be very impressed indeed!

As for what I would cancel - I have never mentioned what I would do, I am talking about communities, businesses etc I have never talked directly about what I would do - I was merely saying at the start that Billions could be saved if things that are not needed or wanted are not done. You seem to have read much more into that then was ever meant.

Anyway, I look forward to your summary of all those links, including the many document updates, in one simple sentence. I guesstimate the total is over 5000 pages including the updates and White Papers and so an awful lot more than the 'huge paragraphs' you say I am writing.

Enjoy reading and summarising, I can't wait to see it.

Best to stop digging eh?

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Heaven help us when the important details are on page 2 of any election leaflets as most will never read that far.

Three words max

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

The country needs decent high speed rail but we couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery it seems.

This is the whole point. We massively need improvement in transportation infrastructure in this country including high speed rail but we just can’t seem to organise it and spend vast amounts cocking it up. Other countries seem to manage it very well, yet we can’t.

I don’t really know why, is it just because it’s the Tories or a wider issue?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

This is the whole point. We massively need improvement in transportation infrastructure in this country including high speed rail but we just can’t seem to organise it and spend vast amounts cocking it up. Other countries seem to manage it very well, yet we can’t.

I don’t really know why, is it just because it’s the Tories or a wider issue?

100% The Tories.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

To save you all having to search for them here are some starter documents about the Infrastructure plans. These are far from the whole detail, those run into thousands of pages and several White Papers but have a read and then you might start to follow what I have posted before. Then, rather than ignore 90% of a post, and select one part of  a sentence out of context we can have a chat if you want. Though I don't hold out much hope of any reasonable replies to this let alone anything being fully read.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/transforming-infrastructure-performance-roadmap-to-2030/transforming-infrastructure-performance-roadmap-to-2030#implementation-and-next-steps

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938539/NIS_Report_Web_Accessible.pdf (this has numerous updates all available from the gov website

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938049/NIS_final_web_single_page.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1016759/Analysis_of_the_National_Infrastructure_and_Construction_Pipeline_2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/520086/2904569_nidp_deliveryplan.pdf This too has numerous updates available

Heaven help us when the important details are on page 2 of any election leaflets as most will never read that far.

Good on you for posting links with evidence and research in it, sadly you’ll find in those people you are arguing with that they don’t care for that type of thing. I’m not sure I agree with you totally on this but it’s good you’re putting the effort in and finding information. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

100% The Tories.

Funnelling the money/contracts to their incompetent mates in business or just general incompetence?