news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I know it is not all green - but it can all be green, with ease. My point is that things like the Guardian article more or less said it cannot be done. But it can and is just not for domestic use and I do not really understand why. EV's in my, and many industry peoples opinions, are not the future and never have been,

they were talking about globally...EU buying hydrogen from N Africa...where lack of water means need to use sea water and process then becomes carbon intensive...so EU net zero goals just gets offset elsewhere.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

You are a total twat. 

 

This.

[Nobody Interesting]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they were talking about globally...EU buying hydrogen from N Africa...where lack of water means need to use sea water and process then becomes carbon intensive...so EU net zero goals just gets offset elsewhere.

That one has been solved

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/02/230214154047.htm

https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2023/feb/hydrogen-seawater

 

and even if you need desalinated water for it Israel has solved that one too.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the-desalination-era-is-here/

and as sea levels rise using sea water to create things like hydrogen and drinking water will help slightly to reduce levels, not much but it all helps

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

That one has been solved

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/02/230214154047.htm

https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2023/feb/hydrogen-seawater

 

and even if you need desalinated water for it Israel has solved that one too.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the-desalination-era-is-here/

and as sea levels rise using sea water to create things like hydrogen and drinking water will help slightly to reduce levels, not much but it all helps

ok, well green hydrogen might be the promised land.

In reality I think it will be part of many solutions towards net zero - still requires a lot of energy, and that has to come from renewables...so it can replace non green hydrogen already used, maybe could be used for plane fuel...but for heating homes and fueling cars probably will just use renewable energy more directly...

Edited August 31, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

Grany Shapps 5th cabinet job in a year. He'll be PM eventually.

[Neil]

54 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

HS2

For those in favour and in reply to a comment from @Neil, how will HS2, which is now likely to be one line from London to Birmingham and little else, improve rail access in Wales, in Northumberland, in East Anglia etc?

Genuine question as you say 'people don't understand'. I would like to understand how it will help areas nowhere near it that are having no money spent improving them.

It'll take some people off existing lines to enable those to be better used . HS2 ends up being an upgrade for the whole system.im not claiming to be an expert or someone who has learnt about it to teach others 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Neil

[fraybentos1]

Also why’s it’s one or the other? Yes we need better local public transport, but we also need high speed rail connecting our cities!

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Its also going to increase capacity for freight as well as far as I understand.

will do by taking some passenger traffic off old lines .

[Neil]

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Morning - thanks for this lovely message on this wonderful Thursday morning.  Fantastic contribution to the thread.

will be interesting to see if crazyfool is as keen to moderate his mate as he is other people.!!!

[stuie]

12 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Morning - thanks for this lovely message on this wonderful Thursday morning.  Fantastic contribution to the thread.

Neil was having an unprovoked attack at me (which he carried on pretty much all night being such a lovely man himself) so I give him a little back.  And then I am the twat.  About sums this place up 🙂 

Serious case of glass houses in operation.

I'm not really interested in how you value my contribution to the thread.  For the most part, I just like to read here to see different view points, however ludicrous they may be. 

There's no justification for using someone's disability to attack them. 

 

[Neil]

So much for the tories best being advocates of free speech and academic freedom 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/31/ex-tory-mp-threatens-sue-cambridge-university-slavery-research-antoinette-sandbach?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Edited August 31, 2023 by Neil

[Nobody Interesting]

55 minutes ago, Neil said:

It'll take some people off existing lines to enable those to be better used . HS2 ends up being an upgrade for the whole system.im not claiming to be an expert or someone who has learnt about it to teach others 

Thanks for the reply - the former chair of HS2 said, in 2020, that it would indeed take people off existing lines but then that gap would soon fill as people saw spaces and then the road gaps that would crate would again just fill up (like they did every time the M25 was made bigger).

and those gaps in rail will only be on lines running to the same places as HS2 so would not help the vast majority of the countries railways and so in y opinion the money would be better spent on the entire system and not just one small part that most would not be able to afford - and the former chair also said that so I cannot find reason to disagree with him.

I wish it would help the whole system, I really do but given how it has already been cut back I doubt even what they have promised will ever be finished leavi g it short of central London.

[Nobody Interesting]

36 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Also why’s it’s one or the other? Yes we need better local public transport, but we also need high speed rail connecting our cities!

There is no money is the simple answer to the question.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

ok, well green hydrogen might be the promised land.

In reality I think it will be part of many solutions towards net zero - still requires a lot of energy, and that has to come from renewables...so it can replace non green hydrogen already used, maybe could be used for plane fuel...but for heating homes and fueling cars probably will just use renewable energy more directly...

There is also a new cargo ship due to sail in 2025 that creates it's own green hydrogen from sea water as it sails. There is some awesome new tech coming and it is that which is the hope we can turn around the situation re climate. We need to leave everything in the ground and that includes the materials needed for the billions of batteries for EV's.

What is happening in some parts of Africa is really dire, just so the wealthy world can have batteries.

[Nobody Interesting]

21 minutes ago, Neil said:

So much for the tories best being advocates of free speech and academic freedom 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/31/ex-tory-mp-threatens-sue-cambridge-university-slavery-research-antoinette-sandbach?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

They like free speech as long is it says what they want it to say and does not cause them any problems.

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Thanks for the reply - the former chair of HS2 said, in 2020, that it would indeed take people off existing lines but then that gap would soon fill as people saw spaces and then the road gaps that would crate would again just fill up (like they did every time the M25 was made bigger).

and those gaps in rail will only be on lines running to the same places as HS2 so would not help the vast majority of the countries railways and so in y opinion the money would be better spent on the entire system and not just one small part that most would not be able to afford - and the former chair also said that so I cannot find reason to disagree with him.

I wish it would help the whole system, I really do but given how it has already been cut back I doubt even what they have promised will ever be finished leavi g it short of central London.

The upgrade needed to existing lines to have the same effect makes the same effect to existing lines uncertain.for example double decker trains would need every bridge and tunnel to be rebuilt and the bad effects from that need factoring against the benefits.

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

The upgrade needed to existing lines to have the same effect makes the same effect to existing lines uncertain.for example double decker trains would need every bridge and tunnel to be rebuilt and the bad effects from that need factoring against the benefits.

""Under new plans, train compartments would be lowered towards the tracks to create the height needed to accommodate two-deck carriages.""

https://www.theweek.co.uk/66898/double-decker-trains-when-might-they-come-to-the-uk

https://www.railway-technology.com/features/seeing-double-uk-ready-embrace-double-decker-trains/

Those problems have been looked at and addressed so the majority of bridges and tunnels will not need to be changed. 

[fraybentos1]

11 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

There is no money is the simple answer to the question.

Yeah I get what you mean to an extent but why do other countries manage it? Why do I go to Germany and know that public transport between major cities is gonna be great but also within the same city the connections are fantastic. 
 

Was in South Korea a few months ago and it’s was outstanding, every train was amazing and you can get from one end of the country to the other in a couple hours. Then the integrated system in towns and cities was fantastic too.
 

These countries aren’t that dissimilar in terms of population and gdp. Not expecting this to happen overnight but it doesn’t seem that ambitious a goal for a country like the U.K. 

[lost]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

Doesn't a lot of it come down to geographical issues ?  We just simply have a lot less space to build on.  HS2 had an enormous amount of compulsory purchases for example.  It a major challenge to build a new line in the UK and less so in the like of Germany.

Doesn't account for all the issues but its go to play into it.

That makes sense plus with us being a smaller country, you can get most places with a 3/4 hour drive so there is probably an economics of scale thing there too.

[Crazyfool01]

Maybe putting them back into public ownership might help … all these private companies have no interest in integrated transport systems it’s all about making a fast buck and paying the shareholders .

[lost]

My thought has always been when we get self driving cars will public transport actually be able to complete. Take something like an uber if we ever get to the point where they can run without a paid driver.

I think I get just under 5 miles per KWH and on a energy deal of 10p per KWH. That's 50 miles for a quid. I would guess though there are new taxes incoming to replace fossil fuels cars but its bloody brilliant at the moment.

[steviewevie]

34 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

There is also a new cargo ship due to sail in 2025 that creates it's own green hydrogen from sea water as it sails. There is some awesome new tech coming and it is that which is the hope we can turn around the situation re climate. We need to leave everything in the ground and that includes the materials needed for the billions of batteries for EV's.

What is happening in some parts of Africa is really dire, just so the wealthy world can have batteries.

where does this ship get it's energy to generate the hydrogen?

[squirrelarmy]

13 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

It a major challenge to build a new line in the UK and less so in the like of Germany.

Germany also had the majority of its major infrastructure flattened. They rebuilt it with expansion in mind. We’re still restricted by Victorian era tunnelling and bridging. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, lost said:

My thought has always been when we get self driving cars will public transport actually be able to complete. Take something like an uber if we ever get to the point where they can run without a paid driver.

I think I get just under 5 miles per KWH and on a energy deal of 10p per KWH. That's 50 miles for a quid. I would guess though there are new taxes incoming to replace fossil fuels cars but its bloody brilliant at the moment.

yeah but then they get hacked and everyone gets driven off beachy head.

[Nobody Interesting]

29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

where does this ship get it's energy to generate the hydrogen?

From what I read, powered by the waves but I did only skim read.