news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

Wonder if he'll get cancelled as quickly as other people have.

[pink_triangle]

He will probably be presenting on GB news soon!

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

He will probably be presenting on GB news soon!

He’s already been invited on it by a Presenter today. 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

2 hours ago, Neil said:

Wonder if he'll get cancelled as quickly as other people have.

Good.

[cellar]

5 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Or he raped some women

Genuine question - have you already assumed his guilt? How do you feel about Kevin Spacey?

I'm not sure either way, about either of them. But it's a tricky one

[Neil]

I don't believe there's anything he could expose to shame this govt!i(just think of everything exposed so far.

I do think his  alleged sexual behaviour is enough for some people - media people  to decide to take him down.

[steviewevie]

5 hours ago, cellar said:

Genuine question - have you already assumed his guilt? How do you feel about Kevin Spacey?

I'm not sure either way, about either of them. But it's a tricky one

I haven't watched the programme yet. I personally think he is probably guilty, but maybe he wouldn't be found guilty in a court of law,  often goes the way of the accused because comes down to lack of concrete evidence and clever expensive lawyers who know what they're doing. Or maybe they're just after him cause he's telling the people the actual truth that is not being told in msm about covid and ukraine and they want to shut him down etc etc blah blah. 

I'm sure this stuff is rife in the music industry too. 

[Guest]

Generally speaking when this type of thing happens with multiple different people accusing someone it means that there is truth to it. It seems to have a well known fact within the industry about him too.

Also you just have to look at the people coming out to his defence, people like Lawrence Fox. That also says a lot tbh. 

[zahidf]

He admits to beating up sex workers in his biography.

The testimony in the times and despatches are very thorough and believable. I 100% believe the women.

 

 

[Nobody Interesting]

Meanwhile in other news, the influence of the media on politicians really needs to be examined.

https://news.sky.com/story/rishi-sunak-was-persuaded-not-to-quit-by-murdoch-executives-after-lockdown-fine-12962287

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

He admits to beating up sex workers in his biography.

The testimony in the times and despatches are very thorough and believable. I 100% believe the women.

 

 

I do too. 

[cellar]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I haven't watched the programme yet. I personally think he is probably guilty, but maybe he wouldn't be found guilty in a court of law,  often goes the way of the accused because comes down to lack of concrete evidence and clever expensive lawyers who know what they're doing. Or maybe they're just after him cause he's telling the people the actual truth that is not being told in msm about covid and ukraine and they want to shut him down etc etc blah blah. 

I'm sure this stuff is rife in the music industry too. 

Yeah I think he probably is guilty of these things, but I'm aware that those beliefs are based on prejudices I have about him and his character, due to the way he's portrayed (mostly by himself) through media I consume. I wouldn't be as quick to assume the guilt of someone who wasn't famous.

It's a scary thing really. And I think the lines become blurred as we look over the different cases of celebrities being accused of things, which is why I brought up Kevin Spacey. He was found not guilty by a court, but do you still assume his guilt? What about Huw Edwards? Philip Schofield? 

 

Edit: changed "didn't know" to "someone not famous" - I don't know Russell Brand

Edited September 17, 2023 by cellar

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, cellar said:

Yeah I think he probably is guilty of these things, but I'm aware that those beliefs are based on prejudices I have about him and his character, due to the way he's portrayed (mostly by himself) through media I consume. I wouldn't be as quick to assume the guilt of someone who wasn't famous.

It's a scary thing really. And I think the lines become blurred as we look over the different cases of celebrities being accused of things, which is why I brought up Kevin Spacey. He was found not guilty by a court, but do you still assume his guilt? What about Huw Edwards? Philip Schofield? 

 

Edit: changed "didn't know" to "someone not famous" - I don't know Russell Brand

Kevin Spacey had 20 complaints of sexual harassment against him at the Old Vic while he was artistic director there. I think he's definitely a predator

 

Probably best to think of it as someone in HR rather than a juror on a trial. The burden of proof for HR isn't as high, you don't have to be 'beyond reasonable doubt' . 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

He admits to beating up sex workers in his biography.

The testimony in the times and despatches are very thorough and believable. I 100% believe the women.

 

 

Having watched (all apart from last 15 minutes)it I am not convinced there is enough there for a criminal conviction. Will it damage his reputation, or just enhance with his echo chamber? I guess it’s possible it encourages others to come forward who may have stronger evidence 

[steviewevie]

51 minutes ago, cellar said:

 

It's a scary thing really. And I think the lines become blurred as we look over the different cases of celebrities being accused of things, which is why I brought up Kevin Spacey. He was found not guilty by a court, but do you still assume his guilt? What about Huw Edwards? Philip Schofield? 

 

each case is different. With Spacey there were a lot of accusations, but court found him innocent, and that may well happen with Brand...doesn't mean he actually is innocent...and this is the problem, no actual solid evidence. Edwards and Schofield were never accused of abuse or rape or anything were they, just being a bit seedy and dishonest maybe?

[zahidf]

42 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Having watched (all apart from last 15 minutes)it I am not convinced there is enough there for a criminal conviction. Will it damage his reputation, or just enhance with his echo chamber? I guess it’s possible it encourages others to come forward who may have stronger evidence 

Hopefully it will be like Weinstein. Some of the offences happened in the US as well

But then I'm not looking at it as a juror. He's clearly guilty 

[steviewevie]

oh...

 

[Guest]

It’s a bit weird to try to group Schofield and Edwards in with Brand when there’s been no real talk of illegal activity with Schofield/Edwards. I’m not sure why anyone would do that given the allegations against Brand.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s a bit weird to try to group Schofield and Edwards in with Brand when there’s been no real talk of illegal activity with Schofield/Edwards. I’m not sure why anyone would do that given the allegations against Brand.

I guess it's the trial by media thing.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I guess it's the trial by media thing.

In this case with Brand, it seems like a pretty thorough investigation by the journalists to be fair to them. 

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

In this case with Brand, it seems like a pretty thorough investigation by the journalists to be fair to them. 

Yup. I agree with this tbh

 

 

 

 

[cellar]

37 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

each case is different. With Spacey there were a lot of accusations, but court found him innocent, and that may well happen with Brand...doesn't mean he actually is innocent...and this is the problem, no actual solid evidence. Edwards and Schofield were never accused of abuse or rape or anything were they, just being a bit seedy and dishonest maybe?

Schofield wasn't, but Edwards was initially by the Sun. And then you get into the whole thing of, just because what Schofield did wasn't illegal, was it right?

To me all of these things are abuses of power, and I don't think any of them are right, if the narratives are true. My problem is that I don't know that I have any right to assume their guilt.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yup. I agree with this tbh

 

 

 

 

If multiple people all independent of one another bring up the same type of allegations against a person then it would generally mean those allegations have some merit.

None of these types of things are the same as the allegations against Schofield/Edwards, it’s pretty bad that someone is trying to link them together. 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, pink_triangle said:

Will it damage his reputation, or just enhance with his echo chamber?

enhance, what's alleged is much like you'd expect from someone like brand. he's abrasive and in your face.  these allegations fit quite strongly with his public persona.

[Crazyfool01]

difficult one isn't it .... id lean to guilt but maybe because ive thought him a prat previous ... as posted there is plenty that doesn't portray him in the best light and obviously several allegations , to me the problem goes a bit deeper ... its that there is something fundamentally wrong with the low number of cases leading to prosecutions , that's why its now become a media trial where initially the allegations should have been dealt with not left to fester and become more and more an issue . This is also shown by govt getting away with more and more and people in powerful positions the same . If there's evidence enough to bring a trial hopefully the fact its out will encourage others to come forward