news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, cellar said:

Schofield wasn't, but Edwards was initially by the Sun. And then you get into the whole thing of, just because what Schofield did wasn't illegal, was it right?

To me all of these things are abuses of power, and I don't think any of them are right, if the narratives are true. My problem is that I don't know that I have any right to assume their guilt.

The Andrews thing was a bit of a  sham in the end...they obviously hadn't done enough checks on what was actually going on. Killed his career though.

Brand has been accused of rape.

[Crazyfool01]

and then you have Prince Andrew ..... 

[Nobody Interesting]

The cult of celebrity

Melting ice and climate change

Politicians being pursuaded to stay by the media

 

As much as I think Brand is a git the other two topics are far more serious and effect us all......................... but as this thread, all media outlets and social media threads show............................ when a 'celebrity' is involved in something everything else ceases to be important for a while. What about the police charged with rape, after people came forward to tell the media, over the last month? I don't recall any discussion about them.

 

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

The cult of celebrity

Melting ice and climate change

Politicians being pursuaded to stay by the media

 

As much as I think Brand is a git the other two topics are far more serious and effect us all......................... but as this thread, all media outlets and social media threads show............................ when a 'celebrity' is involved in something everything else ceases to be important for a while. What about the police charged with rape, after people came forward to tell the media, over the last month? I don't recall any discussion about them.

 

I guess we are all guilty of discussion of people we "know " ... im sure in the past we've covered some of the issues of the met and other police forces but yeah the celebs do get a higher coverage ..... just look at the twitter trends right now . however bringing the celebs to justice is important in that it sets a precedent . The same for corrupt politicians and of course in a few days this coverage will drop until the next scandal 

[pink_triangle]

50 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yup. I agree with this tbh

 

 

 

 

While I understand the point. There have been people who have been found guilty by the media in the past who in fact had done nothing wrong. This is not me talking in relation to the Brand case, but more a general point. If a jury can get it wrong then it would be naive to always think the court of public opinion couldn’t do the same.

[pink_triangle]

Having now watched the whole documentary, it definitely makes some persuasive arguments, although I still don’t see the smoking gun there. Having already withdrawn from the mainstream it’s also unclear that it will impact on him much, unless it encourages others to come forward. I’m also not certain if USA are better or  worse than here in terms of successful rape convictions. 
 

If I had a criticism of the documentary, it felt to me a bit long. I think as a piece of journalism it would have been better just focusing on the more serious stuff. The fact he was constantly having one night stands with audience members may seem distasteful, but it’s not much different to what many rockstars we idolise are doing/have been doing for years. It also didn’t seem like new information.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

The Andrews thing was a bit of a  sham in the end...they obviously hadn't done enough checks on what was actually going on. Killed his career though.

Brand has been accused of rape.

Yeah it seems very weird of him to compare the 2. Brand has been accused of rape yet Edwards/Schofield did morally questionable things, they aren’t the same. 

[steviewevie]

46 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

The cult of celebrity

Melting ice and climate change

Politicians being pursuaded to stay by the media

 

As much as I think Brand is a git the other two topics are far more serious and effect us all......................... but as this thread, all media outlets and social media threads show............................ when a 'celebrity' is involved in something everything else ceases to be important for a while. What about the police charged with rape, after people came forward to tell the media, over the last month? I don't recall any discussion about them.

 

it isn't a story about cult of celebrity, it is a story of a famous person using his position to rape/assault.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it isn't a story about cult of celebrity, it is a story of a famous person using his position to rape/assault.

...and actually all the enablers around him.

[Neil]

35 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

not certain if USA are better or  worse than here in terms of successful rape convictions. 

probably worse for celeb convictions.

[Nobody Interesting]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it isn't a story about cult of celebrity, it is a story of a famous person using his position to rape/assault.

I am referring to the response to it and level of interest not the story. This thread backs up my point nicely.

but to chip in on the debate.......

A decade of so ago in Portsmouth a man was accused of rape via the media.

The person making the accusation did it first via the media and only 6 months later went to the ;police.

The man lost his job, he lost his home, lost access to his kids, moved away from the area - he always said he was innocent.

His lifer was wrecked, he committed suicide.

The accuser then admitted they made it all up.

He was tried by media.

Not saying Brand is innocent or guilty, but showing what this sort of thing does to lives.

[Neil]

italy now saying its going to stop the boats.

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I am referring to the response to it and level of interest not the story. This thread backs up my point nicely.

but to chip in on the debate.......

A decade of so ago in Portsmouth a man was accused of rape via the media.

The person making the accusation did it first via the media and only 6 months later went to the ;police.

The man lost his job, he lost his home, lost access to his kids, moved away from the area - he always said he was innocent.

His lifer was wrecked, he committed suicide.

The accuser then admitted they made it all up.

He was tried by media.

Not saying Brand is innocent or guilty, but showing what this sort of thing does to lives.

I guess you could make the argument that the system does such a poor job in convicting people of sexual assault, that a move (whether legal or court of public opinion) to presumed guilt may correct that balance. Like you I think I have some concerns with that thinking.

[cellar]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah it seems very weird of him to compare the 2. Brand has been accused of rape yet Edwards/Schofield did morally questionable things, they aren’t the same. 

You're weird.

[cellar]

The point is, I thought quite obviously, that these are all just accusations. As has been pointed out by Nobody, there isn't the same level of uproar when it's not a celebrity.

It's just a subject that I think is worth discussing, is all. I absolutely don't think any of these are okay.

And would appreciate not being called weird for wanting to discuss it, Ozanne, so wind your neck in.

[steviewevie]

26 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I am referring to the response to it and level of interest not the story. This thread backs up my point nicely.

but to chip in on the debate.......

A decade of so ago in Portsmouth a man was accused of rape via the media.

The person making the accusation did it first via the media and only 6 months later went to the ;police.

The man lost his job, he lost his home, lost access to his kids, moved away from the area - he always said he was innocent.

His lifer was wrecked, he committed suicide.

The accuser then admitted they made it all up.

He was tried by media.

Not saying Brand is innocent or guilty, but showing what this sort of thing does to lives.

Yes it is trial by media, and I am uncomfortable with that too. But, how many women's lives have been ruined by rape that they can't do anything about or get justice for. 

If ends up in court are these women allowed to remain anonymous?

Edited September 17, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

...and with Brand there is a political side to this with the recent stuff he's been doing and the following he has.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, cellar said:

The point is, I thought quite obviously, that these are all just accusations. As has been pointed out by Nobody, there isn't the same level of uproar when it's not a celebrity.

It's just a subject that I think is worth discussing, is all. I absolutely don't think any of these are okay.

And would appreciate not being called weird for wanting to discuss it, Ozanne, so wind your neck in.

You compared the allegations for Brand against the ones against Schofield/Edwards, when they are nothing alike. I'm not sure why but it is very weird and I'll call you out for it.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...and with Brand there is a political side to this with the recent stuff he's been doing and the following he has.

I’m minded to trust channel 4, but is that my own political bias. The times slightly less, but more than the sun or mail!

 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...and with Brand there is a political side to this with the recent stuff he's been doing and the following he has.

Does anyone pay much attention to what Brand says these days? I doubt very much this is being done because of what he's been saying (not saying this is your view).

[Nobody Interesting]

21 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I guess you could make the argument that the system does such a poor job in convicting people of sexual assault, that a move (whether legal or court of public opinion) to presumed guilt may correct that balance. Like you I think I have some concerns with that thinking.

 

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yes it is trial by media, and I am uncomfortable with that too. But, how many women's lives have been ruined by rape that they can't do anything about or get justice for. 

If ends up in court are these women allowed to remain anonymous?

I have a good friend currently in the system as she was raped.

I wish I did not know all I know about the system and how crap it is but one important thing I do know is that she must not name the person as it will prejudice any trial........................ so why go to the media first if that is the case?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I’m minded to trust channel 4, but is that my own political bias. The times slightly less, but more than the sun or mail!

 

 

I think the key point is look at the amount of time and research has been put into the investigation, the media orgs will also have had to have been extremely carful from a litigeous point of view as well.  

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

 

I have a good friend currently in the system as she was raped.

I wish I did not know all I know about the system and how crap it is but one important thing I do know is that she must not name the person as it will prejudice any trial........................ so why go to the media first if that is the case?

lost all hope with the system ? the conviction rate is pretty low isn't it ? and no doubt lower against. those with power 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Crazyfool01

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think the key point is look at the amount of time and research has been put into the investigation, the media orgs will also have had to have been extremely carful from a litigeous point of view as well.  

What if GB news and the mail produced something making allegations against a public figure you respected with similar length of investigation, would that impact on your judgement?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

What if GB news and the mail produced something making allegations against a public figure you respected with similar length of investigation, would that impact on your judgement?

I wouldn't have any faith if it was GBNews, they don't deserve that level leeway.

The Mail is more complicated, I would give it time, read it through and I would like to think I'd give it fair judgement but it might impact it. Saying that this investigation is in The Sunday Times and that's a paper I don't care for that much.