news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

Also.... have Greens ever been in power anywhere? I know they may have been in coalitions in some places. If we did have PR here then they would definitely have more of a chance, and would probably be in coaltion governments. Hell I might even vote for them. But don't think we're getting PR any time soon. Plus, PR isn't the promised land...lots of far right parties in govt in parts of europe at the moment.

Edited September 20, 2023 by steviewevie

[mattiloy]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Also.... have Greens ever been in power anywhere? I know they may have been in coalitions in some places. If we did have PR here then they would definitely have more of a chance, and would probably be in coaltion governments. Hell I might even vote for them. But don't think we're getting PR any time soon. Plus, PR isn't the promised land...lots of far right parties in govt in parts of europe at the moment.

As opposed to far right parties in both government and opposition in the uk with FPTP…

[Nobody Interesting]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Also.... have Greens ever been in power anywhere? I know they may have been in coalitions in some places. If we did have PR here then they would definitely have more of a chance, and would probably be in coaltion governments. Hell I might even vote for them. But don't think we're getting PR any time soon. Plus, PR isn't the promised land...lots of far right parties in govt in parts of europe at the moment.

Until 1945 Labour had never been in power anywhere.......................... but people changed and they got elected.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Nobody Interesting said:

Until 1945 Labour had never been in power anywhere.......................... but people changed and they got elected.

True...but that took the industrial revolution and two world wars. Maybe we're about to go through something similar.

But, in the meantime most people don't know what the hell the Green party is, who their leader is (what, they have two?!), or anything about them. We have a tory government who are becoming more climate sceptic and three opposition parties with different flavours of green policy, and yes Green party is the most radical. If opposition vote splits amongst those three,,,tories win. No matter what you say about attitude or whatever changes that.

Maybe in a few decades Greens will be bigger and have more of a say after labour implode and the world is literally burning, but that is not happening in the next 12 months.

[steviewevie]

Also...first labour govt was 1923

[pink_triangle]

As I have said the green route to power is PR and that will only ever happen under a Labour administration. In many respects it’s easy to promise plans you know you will never have to deliver or pay for.

[pink_triangle]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

True...but that took the industrial revolution and two world wars. Maybe we're about to go through something similar.

But, in the meantime most people don't know what the hell the Green party is, who their leader is (what, they have two?!), or anything about them. We have a tory government who are becoming more climate sceptic and three opposition parties with different flavours of green policy, and yes Green party is the most radical. If opposition vote splits amongst those three,,,tories win. No matter what you say about attitude or whatever changes that.

Maybe in a few decades Greens will be bigger and have more of a say after labour implode and the world is literally burning, but that is not happening in the next 12 months.

The lack of a charismatic/well known leader is a big problem for them. Maybe one day a popular YouTuber/Ticktocker will get involved and get young people interested.

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

The lack of a charismatic/well known leader is a big problem for them. Maybe one day a popular YouTuber/Ticktocker will get involved and get young people interested.

Russell Brand?

[Nobody Interesting]

58 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

True...but that took the industrial revolution and two world wars. Maybe we're about to go through something similar.

But, in the meantime most people don't know what the hell the Green party is, who their leader is (what, they have two?!), or anything about them. We have a tory government who are becoming more climate sceptic and three opposition parties with different flavours of green policy, and yes Green party is the most radical. If opposition vote splits amongst those three,,,tories win. No matter what you say about attitude or whatever changes that.

Maybe in a few decades Greens will be bigger and have more of a say after labour implode and the world is literally burning, but that is not happening in the next 12 months.

It took Labour 45 years..... and they got a landslide from a low point prior.

The Greens formed in 1972. Their time is now some might say.

[steviewevie]

good thread...

 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

It took Labour 45 years..... and they got a landslide from a low point prior.

The Greens formed in 1972. Their time is now some might say.

they got a landslide, did some radical sh*t...then lost the next election and were out of power for the next 13 years.

(plus, they were in govt in the 1920s).

Yes, it is time for the Greens (except it isn't).

[Nobody Interesting]

45 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Also...first labour govt was 1923

The first Labour Majority government was 1945

They had a minority government in 1924 (22 Jan 1924 – 4 Nov 1924) but that was a disaster as they only had 191 seats and a coalition in 1929-31. Even Labour party historians try and gloss over those two as both led to long periods of Tory rule.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

they got a landslide, did some radical sh*t...then lost the next election and were out of power for the next 13 years.

(plus, they were in govt in the 1920s).

Yes, it is time for the Greens (except it isn't).

They won the election in 1950 with 315 seats, a majority of 2 but after byelections they lost that and then lost an election in 1951

I have already given you the 1920's facts.

Facts are fun - try them

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

ok, I will change my attitude and think Greens can get in.

But they won't. 

true, they'll be lucky to win a 2nd seat (they ain't gonna win in bristol north) reckon they'll be lucky to keep the existing one.

[Nobody Interesting]

14 hours ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Just for interest the main environmental groups post a league table of party manifesto near an election. Here is Greenpeace for 2019

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/climate-debate-party-manifestos-climate-change-nature-2/

and the Labour 2019 manifesto was far more radical than their policies today.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Facts are fun - try them

😄

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

and the Labour 2019 manifesto was far more radical than their policies today.

and very popular.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

and the Labour 2019 manifesto was far more radical than their policies today.

 was less likely to be voted for than their policies today. 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

and very popular.

not popular enough to win.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

not popular enough to win.

Yes sorry should have stated I was being sarcastic.

[steviewevie]

dishi rishi doing a speech at 4:30...binning some of these green crap targets...getting the petrolhead vote.

[Nobody Interesting]

Not that people seem to give a toss but the latest data shows UK CO2 emissions increased by 6% to over 505 million tonnes in 2021.

If these rates carry on and the UK delays the plans to reduce CO2 emissions by 5 years that means there will be another 2.525 BILLION tonnes of CO2 in the atmosphere.

That is more than India produces in a year (1.9 billion tonnes).

Net zero in 2050 WILL NOT remove this from the atmosphere.

Delaying the plans as seems to be happening will damage the climate further.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Not that people seem to give a toss but the latest data shows UK CO2 emissions increased by 6% to over 505 million tonnes in 2021.

still lower than 2019 though, right?

Maybe we should just have more lockdowns.

[5co77ie]

32 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

dishi rishi doing a speech at 4:30...binning some of these green crap targets...getting the petrolhead vote.

I love the way they are saying they are helping people in a cost of living crisis - by keeping them chained to ever increasing fossil fuel prices 🤣

[zahidf]

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by zahidf