news & politics:discussion

[Kurosagi]

55 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Starmer being a remainer climate activist is going to kill Labour's chances.

discuss.

Well it certainly seems bold of him...and given how cautious he's been so far he must have been given rock solid advice backed up by gold star polling that he's not going to end up pulling a Kinnock with this.

Like you and some others on here I thought the question of convergence with the EU would be dead in the water and untouchable politically for at least another election cycle or two. I'll be glad to be proved wrong.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

There was a quiz I did with Greenpeace many years back. Rather than give your carbon footprint it gave a detailed ecological footprint based on all the resources you used and gave the result in how many Earth's you need to live. The closest I find find through their site is here although it is similar

https://www.footprintnetwork.org/

As to what you can do you can always look at local groups in your area that may not directly say climate change but want to change their local environment. I had a breakdown, both mental and family, nearly 20 years back and one of them things that helped me was a community group. We campaigned for a few things and the area is now thriving and even has a number of LTNs which is nice. It is now essentially a 15 minute city which only benefits the environment but it took years of work with no result.

 

 

[Nobody Interesting]

43 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

There was a quiz I did with Greenpeace many years back. Rather than give your carbon footprint it gave a detailed ecological footprint based on all the resources you used and gave the result in how many Earth's you need to live. The closest I find find through their site is here although it is similar

https://www.footprintnetwork.org/

As to what you can do you can always look at local groups in your area that may not directly say climate change but want to change their local environment. I had a breakdown, both mental and family, nearly 20 years back and one of them things that helped me was a community group. We campaigned for a few things and the area is now thriving and even has a number of LTNs which is nice. It is now essentially a 15 minute city which only benefits the environment but it took years of work with no result.

 

 

Just did it and if I remove the flying so I can see where we will be before to long we need 1.4 earths.................

Given I know we use less power than most (30% of average use), reuse and recycle everything, waste no food, have efficient heating but it is gas and drive very little........................... I think the world is rather f**ked for the human race unless major changes come soon!

[Skip997]

11 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

I think the world is rather f**ked for the human race unless major changes come soon!

This

And I don't think many have any idea just how major the changes need to be.

[steviewevie]

when you think of all the people and all the industry and all the flights and ships and cars and crap ...then yeah, ain't happening. Just have to hope for a tech solution.

[steviewevie]

there is already push back going on everywhere...too many people not willing to make the sacrifices required, and most of the sacrifices haven't even started.

[Crazyfool01]

Pokes head back in … didn’t read the follow up I’d just seen the scores posted on here . Will look at log burner change though … that wasn’t listed anywhere but I know they aren’t good although I don’t use it every evening during winter 

[steviewevie]

western govts are just trying to push net zero as potentially good for their economies, hardly mentioning the climate...but looks like China have got their first.

[Nobody Interesting]

12 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

This

And I don't think many have any idea just how major the changes need to be.

 

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

when you think of all the people and all the industry and all the flights and ships and cars and crap ...then yeah, ain't happening. Just have to hope for a tech solution.

and the next billion will arive in quicker time than ever before.

 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

It’s nothing new, he’s being saying this for ages. He’s said he wants to re-do the Brexit deal which will bring us closer to the EU.

This is also what I mean when I say the media/Tories will latch onto the smallest thing and try to spin it as Labour want to cancel Brexit. 

I think labour can stay firm on this. Most I heard a polling expert on the radio he said politician views on 2030 or 2035 will make little difference as most of the electorate weren’t aware of the target anyway.

[steviewevie]

Tories have done this delay of some net zero things for one reason...they see it as a vote winner.

[Nobody Interesting]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

western govts are just trying to push net zero as potentially good for their economies, hardly mentioning the climate...but looks like China have got their first.

When China wants to do something nobody will ever do it quicker than them.

and 'net zero' is meaningless garbage anyway...............................

Give a ton of cash to some poor African country who plant some trees and half your CO2 is offset and cancelled and you reach net zero sooner.

We don't need NET zero.

We need zero zero

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

When China wants to do something nobody will ever do it quicker than them.

and 'net zero' is meaningless garbage anyway...............................

Give a ton of cash to some poor African country who plant some trees and half your CO2 is offset and cancelled and you reach net zero sooner.

We don't need NET zero.

We need zero zero

Gross zero? We'll have to put a plug in volcanoes and cow bumholes.

[steviewevie]

In the end I guess we carry on as best we can with reducing use of fossil fuels ...but you have to take the population with you and try and minimise any pain otherwise governments are replaced with climate sceptic parties in democracies, or are faced with huge social unrest and riots etc. And along with this hope that other solutions can be found, carbon sinks, alternative fuels, space mirrors or whatever. I think 1.5 has gone, but maybe we can keep it below 3...which would be bad, but not apocalypse?

Edited September 21, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

oh.

 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Gross zero? We'll have to put a plug in volcanoes and cow bumholes.

Volcanoes are part of the natural cycle. We are not going to stop climate change just slow it an allow it to run at its natural progression. Arrenhius back in the 19th Century calculated that man would accelerate global warming by the burning of coal. He included Volcanoes as well. He said though it would take hundreds if not a thousand years but he did not have the foresight of the effect of oil and gas.

 

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

37 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

there is already push back going on everywhere...too many people not willing to make the sacrifices required, and most of the sacrifices haven't even started.

I can understand people struggling may laugh at the idea of an electric car when they can’t afford one and have nowhere to charge it. I don’t think this is completely down to people not making sacrifices.

[Nobody Interesting]

43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Gross zero? We'll have to put a plug in volcanoes and cow bumholes.

I refer to human CO2 creation not what the planet does a s amatter of course so the volcanos part is just silly.............. cows though, yes... methane is worse than CO2 but that is not the problem cows cause.

They are mostly fed on soy all over the world, that soy is grown where rain forests used to stand so just the act of feeding cattle causes massive problems and that is without any emmissions for tjhe animals themselves

[Nobody Interesting]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

In the end I guess we carry on as best we can with reducing use of fossil fuels ...but you have to take the population with you and try and minimise any pain otherwise governments are replaced with climate sceptic parties in democracies, or are faced with huge social unrest and riots etc. And along with this hope that other solutions can be found, carbon sinks, alternative fuels, space mirrors or whatever. I think 1.5 has gone, but maybe we can keep it below 3...which would be bad, but not apocalypse?

2.5 and we are f**ked

[Nobody Interesting]

16 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I can understand people struggling may laugh at the idea of an electric car when they can’t afford one and have nowhere to charge it. I don’t think this is completely down to people not making sacrifices.

Batteries of most electric cars need replacing after around 7 years - they cost, for  a Tesla for example, between 12,000 and 16,000 USD.

Who can afford that every 7 years?

EV's are not the future - the only reason they are being pushed is cos the motor industry was told decades ago they would be so invested vast sums in them - they want that investment back.

If all the vehicles on earth were replaced by EV's the batteries alone would take far more lithium than we have easy access to. The only place it is thought there is enough is at the bottom of oceans so can only be got at by dredging the seabed.

All we are doing is taking one problem away and replacing it with another, possibly even bigger problem.

Japan, Australia and Scandanavian countries are looking far more at hydrogen for all needs and i n Japan they seem to think they can sort that for cars on  a mass scale. Test hydrogen cars have been around since 2007 and are just like petrol cars in performance and fuel. Just no emmissions. Make hydrogen the clean way and you can adjust gas storage to hold it.

I shall now await those who comment here who hate the idea of hydrogen in every way - for reasons I fail to understand.

[Nobody Interesting]

40 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Volcanoes are part of the natural cycle. We are not going to stop climate change just slow it an allow it to run at its natural progression. Arrenhius back in the 19th Century calculated that man would accelerate global warming by the burning of coal. He included Volcanoes as well. He said though it would take hundreds if not a thousand years but he did not have the foresight of the effect of oil and gas.

 

The warm up from previous colder times to warmer took on average 10,000 years to warm as much as the planet has since 1970.

Nature had time to adapt, land came and went. Some liveable areas stopped being liveable, some new ones appeared. Wildlife and nature moved and sprung up in new ones and died out in others.

Humans did not exist in all but the last warming and then only in small numbers and they moved as needed.

Humans will move again as needed and the numbers arriving from places we cannot live to places we still can will not be in their 10's of thousands a year................. but in their millions.

Edited September 21, 2023 by Nobody Interesting

[Nobody Interesting]

but while we have to move over to EV's if we can or want to then this sort of thing will become more and more common.

https://www.tripto.org.uk/how-it-works/

[steviewevie]

f**king hate hydrogen. 

[fred quimby]

1 hour ago, Skip997 said:

This

And I don't think many have any idea just how major the changes need to be.

We have never had to do anything like this in human history so we do not comprehend what is needed, well maybe we kind of do but just can't work through it.