news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

2 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

Yeah I think private sector is seeing better pay rises than public so doesn’t apply to all but hopefully remains the case.

Unless there’s a massive recession I don’t see rates being below 5 percent by end of 2024.

there's no meaningful public sector pay rises.

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Enkidu said:

So for how long are Starmernerds going to defend him? Even when he's supporting a state thats committing crimes against humanity, you'll still defend him 🙄

I guess I'm a Starmernerd...so..err, well initially he did, along with most other leaders, support Israel's right to defend itself after Hamas horrific attack, and I do too. But the state of things has got worse and worse for Gazans and he has called for international law to be adhered to and humanitarian aid to be allowed through to Gaza, which includes water, food and electricity. He has reiterated Labour's support for a 2 state solution.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

This is assumes that the leaders are rational actors and that there is 100% control down the chain of command.

There is a lot of evidence that undermines both of those assumptions.

I mean military leaders would not follow political leaders command to deliberately blow up the hospital.

[mattiloy]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

But the state of things has got worse and worse for Gazans

The most predictable thing in the world. If he didnt understand what was coming then he’s a f**king idiot. If he did then he’s an evil c**t. Take your pick.

[lost]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 He has reiterated Labour's support for a 2 state solution.

Looks like some of the Corbynystas have moved on from that one:

 

[Guest]

Why was some people’s first thoughts yesterday to blame the Israelis for the attack? Or some were quick to believe a terrorist organisation? The BBC seemed a main culprit in this and shows certain things about them. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

The most predictable thing in the world. If he didnt understand what was coming then he’s a f**king idiot. If he did then he’s an evil c**t. Take your pick.

what is he supposed to say...oh so these Hamas people went round S Israel killing jews because they're jews and have taken loads of hostages including women and children so Israel must stop the oppression of Palestinians and work towards a 2 state solution.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Why was some people’s first thoughts yesterday to blame the Israelis for the attack? Or some were quick to believe a terrorist organisation? The BBC seemed a main culprit in this and shows certain things about them. 

Maybe because Israel is already bombing the sh*t out of Gaza?

[Neil]

The Tories have got some of you properly sussed : p 

 

[mattiloy]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

what is he supposed to say...oh so these Hamas people went round S Israel killing jews because they're jews and have taken loads of hostages including women and children so Israel must stop the oppression of Palestinians and work towards a 2 state solution.

He was asked specifically about the prospect of Israel committed war crimes and responded only that ’she’ had an absolute right to defend herself. Emily Thornberry the same. They are a disgrace.

This is the problem with focus group, reactive politicking- when the moment requires somebody to step up proactively and lead, there is just a vacuum and this kind of sh*t happens. A disaster. Then once its happened and they have enough of a read of the public reaction, then and only then do they adopt the position- when its too late.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

He was asked specifically about the prospect of Israel committed war crimes and responded only that ’she’ had an absolute right to defend herself. Emily Thornberry the same. They are a disgrace.

This is the problem with focus group, reactive politicking- when the moment requires somebody to step up proactively and lead, there is just a vacuum and this kind of sh*t happens. A disaster. Then once its happened and they have enough of a read of the public reaction, then and only then do they adopt the position- when its too late.

and said that should remain within international law.

Same as SNP, same as Biden, same as countries across europe. What Hamas did was abhorrent, Israel does have the right to go after Hamas, they need to get their hostages back. 

But...Israel response is not proportional, and maybe more weight should have been put on this from western leaders, they are committing war crimes and a ceasefire is required.  

It is particularly difficult for Labour because of its recent past with antisemitism.

[steviewevie]

This is a particularly difficult area for Labour with its recent past with antisemitism and also the fact that many labour supporters are pro Palestine, and some are anti-zionist and think Israel should not actually exist. It is very hard not to upset someone. So yes Starmer should have worded that LBC interview better, but in the end the line seems to be support for Israel to defend itself, but for it to be proportional and within international law..and now for Gazans to be provided humanitarian aid etc. He also has reiterated Labour's policy of a 2 state solution.

[Crazyfool01]

16 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

He was asked specifically about the prospect of Israel committed war crimes and responded only that ’she’ had an absolute right to defend herself. Emily Thornberry the same. They are a disgrace.

This is the problem with focus group, reactive politicking- when the moment requires somebody to step up proactively and lead, there is just a vacuum and this kind of sh*t happens. A disaster. Then once its happened and they have enough of a read of the public reaction, then and only then do they adopt the position- when its too late.

whilst they it had been already stated the water fuel etc was being cut off ... stance is definitely softening now 

[Enkidu]

23 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Why was some people’s first thoughts yesterday to blame the Israelis for the attack? Or some were quick to believe a terrorist organisation? The BBC seemed a main culprit in this and shows certain things about them. 

Because they basically admitted to it initially but then backtracked when they saw the death toll. Israel has a history of blaming others for sh*t it has done: see the murder of Shireen Abu Akleh.

But you seem like the type that'll refuse to acknowledge Israel is in the wrong, and will do whatever you can to turn a blind eye to the atrocities they are committing. Disgusting.

[Crazyfool01]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe because Israel is already bombing the sh*t out of Gaza?

Already several thousand killed by bombs .... how many of those were Hamas terrorists ? 

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Already several thousand killed by bombs .... how many of those were Hamas terrorists members? 

A relatively small percentage I would guess

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Already several thousand killed by bombs .... how many of those were Hamas terrorists ? 

the numbers come from Hamas!

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

the numbers come from Hamas!

yeah but as skip said its going to barely touch the surface whilst breeding further hate for Israel and a perfect recruitment campaign 

[fraybentos1]

35 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Why was some people’s first thoughts yesterday to blame the Israelis for the attack? Or some were quick to believe a terrorist organisation? The BBC seemed a main culprit in this and shows certain things about them. 

This discussion is so far over your head it’s not even funny. Better to probably just say nothing at all ozanne for once. 

[steviewevie]

BBC news are interviewing that Aussie zionist scum bastard who's tweet I posted.

[steviewevie]

bentos take your personal sh*t elsewhere is you have nothing to add.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

yeah but as skip said its going to barely touch the surface whilst breeding further hate for Israel and a perfect recruitment campaign 

yeah, agreed. It does seem counter productive as well as inhumane. Still looks like they're planning in a ground invasion. I was reading that N Gaza has about 500miles of tunnels or something...and Hamas fighters could be using those, and also hostages could be there...so likely will be relentless urban warfare that could go on and on...

It's a real shame that Biden was unable to talk to Arab leaders...they maybe could have put some pressure on Hamas to release some hostages, release the kids for a start.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, agreed. It does seem counter productive as well as inhumane. Still looks like they're planning in a ground invasion. I was reading that N Gaza has about 500miles of tunnels or something...and Hamas fighters could be using those, and also hostages could be there...so likely will be relentless urban warfare that could go on and on...

It's a real shame that Biden was unable to talk to Arab leaders...they maybe could have put some pressure on Hamas to release some hostages, release the kids for a start.

the only way those hostages are coming out alive is through negotiation 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

the only way those hostages are coming out alive is through negotiation 

yeah, maybe...so you give them what they want....then Hamas or Hezbollah or whoever thinks woah this stuff works, let's take some more.