news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Skip997 said:

The problem here is that once Palestinians are moved into Egypt that's it. They'll never be allowed back into Palestine.

thats what people thought when they were in biruit and jordan, yet where are they now???

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, cellar said:

I think media is one of the scariest institutions in the world to be honest.

While it can be, it’s also an easy scapegoat. If person A believes what they want to believe and if proven incorrect just blames the media, person A is not accepting any responsibility.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ommadawn said:

Maybe for you when looking in a mirror..

I've no idea why you are infatuated with me, but move on.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but you're so wrong (again). I just can't compete with Sir Keir. He's the only one for you (until the next Labour leader is elected of course) because you're so shallow and downright weird in your infatuation with him. It's rather sad really.

Ah ok, you don’t like me because I like Starmer. Fair play, try not to let it consume you. 

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

I wish you would stop pulling the disabled card Neil. There's people far worse than you who just get on with their lives without complaint. It really does you no favours.

I don't like doing it by c**tface follows me around to harness me I can't callhim out for it if he doesn't do it.

[Crazyfool01]

6 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

 

 

Been enjoying from a far efestivals forum trying to solve the middle east crisis with a unhealthy dose of antisemitism (not you personally just a general vibe)  but I saw you go all in yesterday and I thought I would wait it out for the facts to come to light - It was always obvious Isreal wouldn't target an actual hospital....

Now its pretty clear it was the terrorists who are responsible for blowing up the hospital do you regret going all in and not waiting for the facts?  

Shutting off the water is a war crime and I’ve already said maybe I shouldn’t have trusted the bbc as an accurate source . You’ve selected some posts from many here . The bombing of the hospital is yet to be established but yep it might well have been others so yep I’ll apologise if and when I’ve got that wrong 

[squirrelarmy]

6 hours ago, Neil said:

thats what people thought when they were in biruit and jordan, yet where are they now???

Egypt don’t want the Palestinians though because of what they did when they arrived in Jordan and Lebanon. 

They’ve got a habit of starting civil wars wherever they are due to their extremist religious beliefs. 

[steviewevie]

Anyway, two by-elections today, Tories to hold onto both?

BET NOW!

[Crazyfool01]

Could people refrain from personal attacks and keep to the subject matter . Please . This is a sh*t look for this forum 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Anyway, two by-elections today, Tories to hold onto both?

BET NOW!

Labour win one … the other has the vote spilt where Labour and Lib Dem’s both could win but the Tory’s sneak in because of it 

[steviewevie]

Interesting Biden publicly warned Israel not to make same mistakes US made after 9/11...he means invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq? Or atrocoties carried out during those invasions? Or f**king up everything post invasion? I guess maybe a bit of everything.

[mattiloy]

7 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Now its pretty clear it was the terrorists who are responsible for blowing up the hospital do you regret going all in and not waiting for the facts?  

Nothing about it is clear.

https://x.com/jrc1921/status/1714734593377477013?s=46
 

[mattiloy]

53 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Egypt don’t want the Palestinians though because of what they did when they arrived in Jordan and Lebanon. 

They’ve got a habit of starting civil wars wherever they are due to their extremist religious beliefs. 

Eugh. This is just unadulterated racism. Poor form.

Egypt don’t want the palestinians because if they leave then Israel will move settlers in to Gaza. Combined with the settlements in the west bank, this will mean any hope for a state for the palestinians is gone forever.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/12/egypt-says-israel-seeks-to-empty-gaza-rejects-corridors-for-civilians

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by mattiloy

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Anyway, two by-elections today, Tories to hold onto both?

BET NOW!

Sod it, Labour take both because of how great Starmer is. 

[cellar]

7 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

While it can be, it’s also an easy scapegoat. If person A believes what they want to believe and if proven incorrect just blames the media, person A is not accepting any responsibility.

I think that's a problem with the person not accepting responsibility. 

People assuming recently that Israel bombed a hospital was not unreasonable. People weren't jumping to conclusions based on anything other than the fact that that narrative fit with the overall narrative of events that was going on.

Because new information sheds light on the situation that means that may not have been the case is just indicative of this fast news/fake news world we live in, but its strange that there is so much uproar around the initial response. Another bit of the propaganda machine, no doubt.

[steviewevie]

41 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Eugh. This is just unadulterated racism. Poor form.

Egypt don’t want the palestinians because if they leave then Israel will move settlers in to Gaza. Combined with the settlements in the west bank, this will mean any hope for a state for the palestinians is gone forever.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/10/12/egypt-says-israel-seeks-to-empty-gaza-rejects-corridors-for-civilians

 

they are rejecting safe passage for Palestinians because it means Palestinians leaving Palestine? All those people at the border have to stay and fight?

Basically they don't want to deal with a huge amount of refugees...Egypt has got multiple problems going on, this would just be another one it doesn't want. But they will have to allow safe passage.

And we don't know Israel want settlers in there. They went all through that effort to get them out in the past, I don't think they will want to go through that again.

[pink_triangle]

21 minutes ago, cellar said:

I think that's a problem with the person not accepting responsibility. 

People assuming recently that Israel bombed a hospital was not unreasonable. People weren't jumping to conclusions based on anything other than the fact that that narrative fit with the overall narrative of events that was going on.

Because new information sheds light on the situation that means that may not have been the case is just indicative of this fast news/fake news world we live in, but its strange that there is so much uproar around the initial response. Another bit of the propaganda machine, no doubt.

I agree it’s a problem with people taking responsibility, my point was them trying to use the media to deflect from themselves. 
 

However I disagree with your second point on people not jumping to conclusions based on anything other than the events. I say this because if Israel had been first out to pin the blame on Hamas, many of the same people would have just assumed it not to be true. So people preconceived views are playing a big role here.

Also not everyone just took it as true, I know as I was one of them! The (many years ago) GCSE history student in me  said can I trust the source? Hmmm Hamas could there be any scope for bias? Then when it said we are unable to confirm these claims, my initial thought was let’s wait for confirmation. We can talk about fast news, but there is nothing wrong with taking “I don’t know approach “ and waiting for new information.

As I said earlier I fear the left could be getting as bad as the right with a belief of fake news. Take Corbyn he tweets about the Israeli attack on the hospital. Evidence comes out that this may not be the case, no tweet deleted, no follow up. I would criticise the right for this, so the left deserve the same.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

And we don't know Israel want settlers in there. They went all through that effort to get them out in the past, I don't think they will want to go through that again.

actually there are some pretty hardcore right wing types in Israeli govt who actually might want this, but I still don't think they will. I think it will be just a load of fighting with Hamas in N Gaza.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I agree it’s a problem with people taking responsibility, my point was them trying to use the media to deflect from themselves. 
 

However I disagree with your second point on people not jumping to conclusions based on anything other than the events. I say this because if Israel had been first out to pin the blame on Hamas, many of the same people would have just assumed it not to be true. So people preconceived views are playing a big role here.

Also not everyone just took it as true, I know as I was one of them! The (many years ago) GCSE history student in me  said can I trust the source? Hmmm Hamas could there be any scope for bias? Then when it said we are unable to confirm these claims, my initial thought was let’s wait for confirmation. We can talk about fast news, but there is nothing wrong with taking “I don’t know approach “ and waiting for new information.

As I said earlier I fear the left could be getting as bad as the right with a belief of fake news. Take Corbyn he tweets about the Israeli attack on the hospital. Evidence comes out that this may not be the case, no tweet deleted, no follow up. I would criticise the right for this, so the left deserve the same.

Thats kind of what I was thinking about yesterday. When the news came out some immediately (without any facts) jumped to assume it was Israel based on 1 article. We had the same the week before when the attack was found to not be Israel’s fault.

So if your immediate thought is, that a certain race did something without any facts isn’t that a form of prejudice? I think it could be and it’s worrying how quickly it comes out in some cases. 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Thats kind of what I was thinking about yesterday. When the news came out some immediately (without any facts) jumped to assume it was Israel based on 1 article. We had the same the week before when the attack was found to not be Israel’s fault.

So if your immediate thought is, that a certain race did something without any facts isn’t that a form of prejudice? I think it could be and it’s worrying how quickly it comes out in some cases. 

I don't know...maybe there is some prejudice, infact there's bound to be in this conflict where you have to pick a side...but a lot of main stream media as well as social media were all pointing finger at Israel initially...and they had been dropping a lot of bombs on Gaza already. 

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know...maybe there is some prejudice, infact there's bound to be in this conflict where you have to pick a side...but a lot of main stream media as well as social media were all pointing finger at Israel initially...and they had been dropping a lot of bombs on Gaza already. 

The mainstream media I read clearly said the claims have not been verified, so it’s fair to wait for verification.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

The mainstream media I read clearly said the claims have not been verified, so it’s fair to wait for verification.

I think some BBC journalists and US papers were insinuating it was Israel shortly after the explosion.

[steviewevie]

I mean up until then Israel had dropped something like 6000 bombs on Gaza already, so it is not that wild an assumption that this was an Israeli bomb, but yes people should be careful throwing round accusations when situation so delicate.

[mattiloy]

38 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they are rejecting safe passage for Palestinians because it means Palestinians leaving Palestine? All those people at the border have to stay and fight?

Basically they don't want to deal with a huge amount of refugees...Egypt has got multiple problems going on, this would just be another one it doesn't want. But they will have to allow safe passage.

And we don't know Israel want settlers in there. They went all through that effort to get them out in the past, I don't think they will want to go through that again.

Except it has been the strategic position of all neighbouring arab nations for ages. Yes it makes palestinian refugees pawns but evidently not losing what little land is left is a greater priority for them. Not that I agree with it, but thats what is going on. Nothing to do with squirrelarmy’s racist suggestion that its because Palestinians are extremist troublemakers by nature.
 

As for the settlers- the settlement movement is decentralised. Its not about what the israeli govt want, if the land is cleared of people, these hardline religious settler groups will move in. Then the govt will have to protect them if there is resistance so the settlement becomes de facto part of israel. Until the whole of gaza is subsumed. Just like in the west bank.