news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

...although interesting no land invasion yet...maybe pressure being placed on Israel to hold back on that...maybe more hostages will be released? Israel must know they can't win this militarily, unless they plan to just flatten Gaza completely..?

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...although interesting no land invasion yet...maybe pressure being placed on Israel to hold back on that...maybe more hostages will be released? Israel must know they can't win this militarily, unless they plan to just flatten Gaza completely..?

Hostage release talks enter serious stage, says source

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67185260

 

[steviewevie]

here you go...

 

[steviewevie]

it's all dual citizenship hostages being released first...was this always the plan for Hamas?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

why not just call for a ceasefire...

 

I imagine it’s because Israel are an ally that has been hit by a terrorist attack. They aren’t in the frame of mind for peace so it’s better to call for aid to go to civilians.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I imagine it’s because Israel are an ally that has been hit by a terrorist attack. They aren’t in the frame of mind for peace so it’s better to call for aid to go to civilians.

yes, sure...but even so we can all see what is happening in Gaza...

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

That is all just noise.  
There isn't a lack of aid for Gaza.  There is a lack of access.  Trucks are queued up at the border.

You really are a nasty piece of work.

If the aid is not in the hands of the Palestinians, but parked a few metres away and controlled on the whim of Israel/Egypt, then there's effectively a lack of aid.

It's no use to anyone stuck in the back of a truck.

[Neil]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

why not just call for a ceasefire...

cos there was in essence a ceasefire before Hamas went on its murderous spree.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Neil

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, sure...but even so we can all see what is happening in Gaza...

Oh yeah I know but it’s more likely to be successful if they call for aid for people when there’s not much of a chance of a ceasefire sadly. 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...although interesting no land invasion yet...maybe pressure being placed on Israel to hold back on that...maybe more hostages will be released? Israel must know they can't win this militarily, unless they plan to just flatten Gaza completely..?

It takes a while to prepare a ground assault. A few weeks is nothing really. 

[pink_triangle]

38 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

why not just call for a ceasefire...

 

I get the impression calling for a ceasefire is just a sticking plaster, but it’s something that people without influence can ask for and feel like they are making a difference. However you have the ceasefire, Hamas do more bad stuff at a later date and we are back to square one. There is no way of solving the problem, but it can be made better by behind closed door diplomacy, people screaming for a ceasefire on social media won’t make a difference. 

The sad thing for me is why some get close to defending Hamas. The reality is that Hamas would gladly throw women and kids under the bus when it suits them. I feel we need to separate Hamas and the Palestinian people who are left to take the consequences.

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I get the impression calling for a ceasefire is just a sticking plaster, but it’s something that people without influence can ask for and feel like they are making a difference. However you have the ceasefire, Hamas do more bad stuff at a later date and we are back to square one. There is no way of solving the problem, but it can be made better by behind closed door diplomacy, people screaming for a ceasefire on social media won’t make a difference. 

The sad thing for me is why some get close to defending Hamas. The reality is that Hamas would gladly throw women and kids under the bus when it suits them. I feel we need to separate Hamas and the Palestinian people who are left to take the consequences.

people are calling for a ceasefire for the optics they think it makes them look good. (most of the people doing it, have backed hamas)

[Skip997]

So being critical of Israeli is now not only anti-Semitic, it's also automatically support of Hamas?

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Skip997 said:

So being critical of Israeli is now not only anti-Semitic, it's also automatically support of Hamas?

depends what the critical is?

[steviewevie]

16 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I get the impression calling for a ceasefire is just a sticking plaster, but it’s something that people without influence can ask for and feel like they are making a difference. However you have the ceasefire, Hamas do more bad stuff at a later date and we are back to square one. There is no way of solving the problem, but it can be made better by behind closed door diplomacy, people screaming for a ceasefire on social media won’t make a difference. 

The sad thing for me is why some get close to defending Hamas. The reality is that Hamas would gladly throw women and kids under the bus when it suits them. I feel we need to separate Hamas and the Palestinian people who are left to take the consequences.

sure, but every day 100s more Palestinans die...

[pink_triangle]

13 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

So being critical of Israeli is now not only anti-Semitic, it's also automatically support of Hamas?

Not for me, but I think some people inadvertently find themselves being sympathetic of Hamas when critical of Israel.

[pink_triangle]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

sure, but every day 100s more Palestinans die...

If I felt Labour politicians calling for a ceasefire would save a single life then I would be calling for them all to make statements. The reality is international diplomacy isn’t done through simple public statements on twitter.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

More zionist/islamist propaganda

 

[Neil]

Ramp up the fear levels and a war to get the tories re-elected

[steviewevie]

53 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

If I felt Labour politicians calling for a ceasefire would save a single life then I would be calling for them all to make statements. The reality is international diplomacy isn’t done through simple public statements on twitter.

like with aid, if more and more international leaders start calling for a ceasefire, the more likely it will happen. Plus, there is politics here...does Labour want to keep supporting Israel as the bodies start piling up and it begins to look like genocide?

[steviewevie]

..and infact EU calling for a ceasefire now.

Edited October 23, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

(or a humanitarian pause)

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

like with aid, if more and more international leaders start calling for a ceasefire, the more likely it will happen. Plus, there is politics here...does Labour want to keep supporting Israel as the bodies start piling up and it begins to look like genocide?

I think Starmer has zero influence on things and Sunak a tiny bit more. I think labour are best to say whatever gives them the chance to have some influence should they take power, whatever that may be.

Saying that one of my best friends still claims to this day that Corbyn single handedly brought peace to Ireland, so maybe we just need to send Jez over to play peacekeeper.

 

[Neil]

18 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think Starmer has zero influence on things and Sunak a tiny bit more. I think labour are best to say whatever gives them the chance to have some influence should they take power, whatever that may be.

Saying that one of my best friends still claims to this day that Corbyn single handedly brought peace to Ireland, so maybe we just need to send Jez over to play peacekeeper.

 

Your mate is a sucker for a good story that suits his prejudices. A bit like how Israel/hamas is working.