news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

[Justiceforcedave]

9 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

You are the one who keeps beating the drum for the rapists and point blank go pro wearing baby killers.  But you do you.

....this is the absolute pits. No one here is celebrating any of this vile stuff!

So much of this thread is "Oh, so you think X do you? Then you must support [Insert provocative thing]". not just from Barry, but from lots of people. If healthy debate is the aim, this isn't it. If convincing the other to consider their position is the aim, this isn't it.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Justiceforcedave

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I think Starmer has zero influence on things and Sunak a tiny bit more. I think labour are best to say whatever gives them the chance to have some influence should they take power, whatever that may be.

Saying that one of my best friends still claims to this day that Corbyn single handedly brought peace to Ireland, so maybe we just need to send Jez over to play peacekeeper.

 

I don't know. Look at the damage unequivocal support for US after 9/11 did to Labour and this country. Supporting Israel after those horrific attacks is correct imo, but then they send confusing messages about the siege and international law, and now that we can all see on our tvs the bloodbath and devastation that is being wrought on Gaza they just say there must be aid, that isn't going to help families with bombs dropping on them. UN/EU are now calling for a ceasefire, or at least a pause. What if we see 10,000 dead, or more? When do we say, ok, you got them back, you can stop now? What if does end up in an international court, Labour will say well we said should be within international law but we didn't realise those laws were actually being broken? Expect Galloway's party or an equivalent to be standing in various seats around the county taking the muslim (and non-muslim) vote away from Labour on the back of this.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know. Look at the damage unequivocal support for US after 9/11 did to Labour and this country. Supporting Israel after those horrific attacks is correct imo, but then they send confusing messages about the siege and international law, and now that we can all see on our tvs the bloodbath and devastation that is being wrought on Gaza they just say there must be aid, that isn't going to help families with bombs dropping on them. UN/EU are now calling for a ceasefire, or at least a pause. What if we see 10,000 dead, or more? When do we say, ok, you got them back, you can stop now? What if does end up in an international court, Labour will say well we said should be within international law but we didn't realise those laws were actually being broken? Expect Galloway's party or an equivalent to be standing in various seats around the county taking the muslim (and non-muslim) vote away from Labour on the back of this.

Oh come on. A party like Galloway’s will take barely any votes away from Labour as a result of this, it certainly won’t be enough to make any difference.

Also considering the scale of the crises why this now be made a Labour thing? Labour saying there must be a ceasefire won’t do anything. 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Oh come on. A party like Galloway’s will take barely any votes away from Labour as a result of this, it certainly won’t be enough to make any difference.

Also considering the scale of the crises why this now be made a Labour thing? Labour saying there must be a ceasefire won’t do anything. 

It's a very divisive issue for labour. It is why starmer keeps getting asked about that lbc interview and why he keeps banging on about international laws and aid...but those laws keep getting broken and that aid is only trickling in.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It's a very divisive issue for labour. It is why starmer keeps getting asked about that lbc interview and why he keeps banging on about international laws and aid...but those laws keep getting broken and that aid is only trickling in.

Yes it is a divisive issue for Labour but it’s not going to cause another party to take many votes off them. Calling for aid to go in is the right thing to do and the Opposition party isn’t going to me able to make any difference in calling for ceasefire especially when they say Israel has the right to defend itself. 

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes it is a divisive issue for Labour but it’s not going to cause another party to take many votes off them. Calling for aid to go in is the right thing to do and the Opposition party isn’t going to me able to make any difference in calling for ceasefire especially when they say Israel has the right to defend itself. 

They're not going to make any difference calling for aid to go in either. Galloway's various parties  have hurt labour in the past in seats with high Muslim populations, don't see any reason why this couldn't happen again.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

So the Tories have decided to put on hold their proposed ban on Section 21, no fault, evictions until the court process is reformed which could take years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67187411

[steviewevie]

Unemployment up a bit..

[steviewevie]

This lot pushing the idea all made up by the Israelis.

 

[lazyred]

2 hours ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

So the Tories have decided to put on hold their proposed ban on Section 21, no fault, evictions until the court process is reformed which could take years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67187411

If no fault evictions are banned surely there'll be less cases going to court? The blatant self interest of those landlord MPs is taking the piss.

[lazyred]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

20.9% are economic inactive.  How does that compare historically ? 

Hasn't changed much but slght downward trend. I'm not sure how useful that is because there'e a lot of change in that period. Compared to the 1970s I'm guessing there are more women working and more students. Also more people alive with illness that would have killed them a few decades ago.

 

[steviewevie]

39 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Hasn't changed much but slght downward trend. I'm not sure how useful that is because there'e a lot of change in that period. Compared to the 1970s I'm guessing there are more women working and more students. Also more people alive with illness that would have killed them a few decades ago.

 

isn't it mostly made up of students and ill people, but gone up post pandemic because of more people with long term illness and also more people taking early retirement?

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

 

wow - that will be popular.

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

wow - that will be popular.

A Liz Truss banger. 

[lost]

4 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Tory priorities

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67206997

I mean its kind of the right thing to do in the sense it should never have happened in the first place but its just further bad optics for this failed government.

Judging by Barclays results today its going to be P45's over massive bonuses next year.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

 

Israel has called for Guterres to resign...

[Neil]

29 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Israel has called for Guterres to resign...

that's why nandy didn't say Israel had broken international law.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

that's why nandy didn't say Israel had broken international law.

because they might call for her to resign?

[steviewevie]

anyway, Guterres said a lot of things..like...

 

[pink_triangle]

13 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know. Look at the damage unequivocal support for US after 9/11 did to Labour and this country. Supporting Israel after those horrific attacks is correct imo, but then they send confusing messages about the siege and international law, and now that we can all see on our tvs the bloodbath and devastation that is being wrought on Gaza they just say there must be aid, that isn't going to help families with bombs dropping on them. UN/EU are now calling for a ceasefire, or at least a pause. What if we see 10,000 dead, or more? When do we say, ok, you got them back, you can stop now? What if does end up in an international court, Labour will say well we said should be within international law but we didn't realise those laws were actually being broken? Expect Galloway's party or an equivalent to be standing in various seats around the county taking the muslim (and non-muslim) vote away from Labour on the back of this.

Labour are the party of opposition there is little they can do now, whatever they do will upset someone. The conservatives will love it if labour tie themselves up over this, so they need to make sure they don’t.

So all for a long lasting ceasefire, but that won’t be achieved by statements on social media. What would like follow a ceasefire is a Hamas attack (it’s what terrorists do) , arguments over a proportionate response and we just go round in circles.