news & politics:discussion

[stuie]

26 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

batshit

 

At this point, they really need to just give up the Rwanda idea. 

It's expensive, illegal and the optics are so poor. 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

What a pointless press conference, yet another new law (there’s been 3 of these now) and another treaty with Rwanda. What a useless tool Sunak is. 

[Guest]

‘Foreign court’. 

[squirrelarmy]

Just because a meaningless law says Rwanda is safe doesn’t mean it becomes safe.
 

Might as well pass a law saying that Ukraine is now safe and end the war with Russia in an instant. 
 

The power of legislation 🙄

[lost]

Jess Phillips? suprised at that one.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by lost

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Just because a meaningless law says Rwanda is safe doesn’t mean it becomes safe.
 

Might as well pass a law saying that Ukraine is now safe and end the war with Russia in an instant. 
 

The power of legislation 🙄

It just shows Sunak hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing. He is putting forward another law when they’ve already done that more than once. He moaned about the courts yet that law won’t do anything to address the actual issues highlighted today by the SC.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

Jess Phillips? suprised at that one.

 

well, she has been one of those calling for a ceasefire...she also has a large muslim population in her constituency? 

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

It just shows Sunak hasn’t got a clue what he’s doing. He is putting forward another law when they’ve already done that more than once. He moaned about the courts yet that law won’t do anything to address the actual issues highlighted today by the SC.

It’s just impossible posturing in order to keep pandering to the racists in the country. 
 

You can’t stop immigration especially to an island nation like ourselves which has depended on immigration since before we were even a unified country. 
 

If he really wanted to stop dangerous illegal crossings then make it easier to allow legal migration. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

It’s just impossible posturing in order to keep pandering to the racists in the country. 
 

You can’t stop immigration especially to an island nation like ourselves which has depended on immigration since before we were even a unified country. 
 

If he really wanted to stop dangerous illegal crossings then make it easier to allow legal migration. 

He’s just kicking the can down the road as he has no idea how to deal with it. Theme obvious outcome is a deal with France, processing centres in France and open safe legal routes but that doesn’t stir up the base for the Tories. 

[steviewevie]

[steviewevie]

Tory MPs being whipped to vote against Labour amendment, so it won't pass and then SNP one will be voted on and then Labour resignations/sacking. So stupid.

[steviewevie]

Some intimidation going on too. Not good.

Starmer should have allowed a free vote.

[Guest]

Anyone would think Labour are the actual government. Once again nothing said about the actual government. 

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

You can't vote for a ceasefire.  We have no control over Israel defending themselves from being murdered and rapped by terrorists.  The arrogance of it all. 

Sunak can just pass a law saying that there will be a ceasefire as he has magic paper that makes things happen. 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Anyone would think Labour are the actual government. Once again nothing said about the actual government. 

because this isn't a divisive issue for them like it is for Labour. Labour amendment is basically govt policy, but still they won't vote for it to hurt Starmer. Whole thing stinks, people playing politics over a terrible event which we have very little control over.

Edited November 15, 2023 by steviewevie

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

because this isn't a divisive issue for them like it is for Labour. Labour amendment is basically govt policy, but still they won't vote for it to hurt Starmer. Whole thing stinks, people playing politics over a terrible events which we have very little control over.

It doesn’t matter what Labour say, it won’t make any difference. Yet the Tories aren’t calling for a ceasefire and no one says anything. Shocking.

If Parliament vote for a ceasefire today it would change nothing, it’s just words and wouldn’t mean anything. Yet people are just using it as another excuse to bash Labour. 

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It doesn’t matter what Labour say, it won’t make any difference. Yet the Tories aren’t calling for a ceasefire and no one says anything. Shocking.

If Parliament vote for a ceasefire today it would change nothing, it’s just words and wouldn’t mean anything. Yet people are just using it as another excuse to bash Labour. 

Not only will labour words have zero influence on what is happening today, it will potentially reduce influence on Israel for labour government in the future. I can understand Starmer playing the long game.

[Guest]

Just now, pink_triangle said:

Not only will labour words have zero influence on what is happening today, it will potentially reduce influence on Israel for labour government in the future. I can understand Starmer playing the long game.

It’s purely for show so those MPs can feel like they are doing something.

Also take a look at the amendments, Labours one doesn’t call for a ceasefire but outlines ways to get there whilst the SNPs just calls for a ceasefire without saying how. Yet because Labour doesn’t say the word ‘ceasefire’ it’s not good enough apparently. Purely for show. 

[Guest]

 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It doesn’t matter what Labour say, it won’t make any difference. Yet the Tories aren’t calling for a ceasefire and no one says anything. Shocking.

If Parliament vote for a ceasefire today it would change nothing, it’s just words and wouldn’t mean anything. Yet people are just using it as another excuse to bash Labour. 

because most in Tory party agree that shouldn't be a ceasefire, they are united on this, where as Labour really aren't. I agree it would change nothing, but this vote still happening, and there will be resignations etc

Whole thing pisses me off actually, people playing politics with this. Reminds me of a lot of the stupid votes that went on during brexit.

Ultimately Starmer has played this badly I reckon...he screwed up with that LBC interview and then how slow he was to follow up on what he actually meant...and he really could have allowed a free vote on this and then tried to move on. Now he has a problem, I think it's a potentially a fairly big problem but no doubt you won't.

[steviewevie]

here's my man...

 

[Guest]

Just now, steviewevie said:

because most in Tory party agree that shouldn't be a ceasefire, they are united on this, where as Labour really aren't. I agree it would change nothing, but this vote still happening, and there will be resignations etc

Whole thing pisses me off actually, people playing politics with this. Reminds me of a lot of the stupid votes that went on during brexit.

Ultimately Starmer has played this badly I reckon...he screwed up with that LBC interview and then how slow he was to follow up on what he actually meant...and he really could have allowed a free vote on this and then tried to move on. Now he has a problem, I think it's a potentially a fairly big problem but no doubt you won't.

So those frontbenchers vote against and Starmer sacks them. Hardly seems like a big issue, seems they are out of a job when they could potentially head into government and actually change lives. 

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It’s purely for show so those MPs can feel like they are doing something.

Also take a look at the amendments, Labours one doesn’t call for a ceasefire but outlines ways to get there whilst the SNPs just calls for a ceasefire without saying how. Yet because Labour doesn’t say the word ‘ceasefire’ it’s not good enough apparently. Purely for show. 

In fairness some MPs may risk losing their seats by not calling for the ceasefire so I can understand from that perspective.

[steviewevie]

15 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Not only will labour words have zero influence on what is happening today, it will potentially reduce influence on Israel for labour government in the future. I can understand Starmer playing the long game.

ok, this argument...you think UK has much of an influence anyway? More than France who are calling for a ceasefire? But also what about all the muslim countries in the world? Might help with them?

(and there's also the fact that people are dying or being injured or being displaced every day in Gaza by this war and maybe it is actually the right thing to do?)

Edited November 15, 2023 by steviewevie