news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

Israel had a lot of support after the initial attacks, but due to their totally disproportional response that has evaporated...and now not only is this devastating for people living in Gaza, but also has made inter faith relations and in particular antisemitism a whole lot worse. The more it goes on, the worse it is getting. It needs to end. Yes that might mean some in Hamas will survive or remain free, but that is a price to pay. So, I really want Labour to win the next election because they are the only ones that can kick out the tories, but I do support those voting for a ceasefire, including my man Afzal Khan. Stop fighting, allow diplomacy to work to try and release the hostages.

[Guest]

The last couple of hours here really sums up politics online for the U.K.

The unelected PM says he’ll put legislation to Parliament that means he can bypass the Courts (with potential ramifications to our democratic rights) to send migrants to an unsafe country; yet it barely gets any mention.

However a vote in Parliament which will do nothing is being used again and again as a reason to bash the opposition party. No wonder this country is in a mess. 

[steviewevie]

Meanwhile Xi is meeting Biden...hope they get on.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

24 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok, this argument...you think UK has much of an influence anyway? More than France who are calling for a ceasefire? But also what about all the muslim countries in the world? Might help with them?

(and there's also the fact that people are dying or being injured or being displaced every day in Gaza by this war and maybe it is actually the right thing to do?)

Yet nobody has explained how labour calling for a ceasefire will stop these people dying or being injured. The reason for that is it won’t. So people are effectively calling for words that will make no difference.

I don’t think labour will have much influence in power (we all know it’s USA who are calling the shots) but better have a small amount than none 

[steviewevie]

[pink_triangle]

30 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Good old fashioned self interest 🙂 

Labour are in the minority. Is it worth losing your seat over an issue your party can’t control. I can imagine some will return to the cabinet/shadow cabinet in the future.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Labour are in the minority. Is it worth losing your seat over an issue your party can’t control. I can imagine some will return to the cabinet/shadow cabinet in the future.

it's also called representative democracy.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

Yet nobody has explained how labour calling for a ceasefire will stop these people dying or being injured. The reason for that is it won’t. So people are effectively calling for words that will make no difference.

I don’t think labour will have much influence in power (we all know it’s USA who are calling the shots) but better have a small amount than none 

yes, of course they won't make much difference, I wouldn't say no difference, but yeah very minimal. Still doesn't stop this vote happening, and the divisions within labour over this.

(also, if what labour say doesn't matter, may as well call for a ceasefire 🙂)

[steviewevie]

Anyway, votes are at 7...have to see how well Starmer and co have done over last few hours in persuading MPs not to vote for SNP amendment.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, of course they won't make much difference, I wouldn't say no difference, but yeah very minimal. Still doesn't stop this vote happening, and the divisions within labour over this.

(also, if what labour say doesn't matter, may as well call for a ceasefire 🙂)

So if it doesn’t make any difference then why bother?

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes, of course they won't make much difference, I wouldn't say no difference, but yeah very minimal. Still doesn't stop this vote happening, and the divisions within labour over this.

(also, if what labour say doesn't matter, may as well call for a ceasefire 🙂)

I said it won’t matter today, not it won’t matter in the future. As I have said from my perspective it weakens influence in the power. The only route to peace is behind closed door diplomacy with the USA taking the lead. It may not make as catchy a slogan , but that’s the reality. Let’s hope these talks get positive results.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

So if it doesn’t make any difference then why bother?

why bother what? voting for a ceasefire? Good question, but they are? I guess something to do with principles? Something to do with fed up watching the carnage going on for weeks in Gaza? Why does Starmer bother with the whole whip thing? Why did he bother with his amendment? Why does he not just call for a ceasefire?

There are no easy answers for this, but a war in the middle east was always going to be a massively divisive issue for Labour...and here we are...and it looks like it might go on for some time...

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

why bother what? voting for a ceasefire? Good question, but they are? I guess something to do with principles? Something to do with fed up watching the carnage going on for weeks in Gaza? Why does Starmer bother with the whole whip thing? Why did he bother with his amendment? Why does he not just call for a ceasefire?

There are no easy answers for this, but a war in the middle east was always going to be a massively divisive issue for Labour...and here we are...and it looks like it might go on for some time...

Why bother with people wanting to vote for a ceasefire when it won’t do anything? It seems to be honest like something that’s purely for show and used as yet another reason to bash Labour.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Why bother with people wanting to vote for a ceasefire when it won’t do anything? It seems to be honest like something that’s purely for show and used as yet another reason to bash Labour.

I don't know man. You could say same with current Labour policy. 

Labour have admitted the pauses are not enough...so what? longer pauses? How long?

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

why bother what? voting for a ceasefire? Good question, but they are? I guess something to do with principles? Something to do with fed up watching the carnage going on for weeks in Gaza? Why does Starmer bother with the whole whip thing? Why did he bother with his amendment? Why does he not just call for a ceasefire?

There are no easy answers for this, but a war in the middle east was always going to be a massively divisive issue for Labour...and here we are...and it looks like it might go on for some time...

It’s politics and people will have different reasons for supporting a ceasefire. Some will be principle, some will be about holding their seat, some may have an eye on standing for the leadership if labour lose the next election.

I think Starmer will be ok with those currently rumoured to be resigning, who will be completely unknown to the average person. I look at the current shadow cabinet and I just don’t see one of the more prominent politicians doing the same, maybe someone like Ed Milliband could?

[steviewevie]

Ozanne/pink_triangle...I do get your arguments, I really do. Just feels like endless carnage and misery, and it's too upsetting.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know man. You could say same with current Labour policy. 

Labour have admitted the pauses are not enough...so what? longer pauses? How long?

Because humanitarian pauses are actually achievable whereas a ceasefire isn’t. 

[steviewevie]

 

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

 

I initially read it as shadow minister for e-sports and then thought at least that makes more sense than a minister for common sense!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

I have to say the whole thing does now make me question if Labour are ready for power.  That doesn't mean the Tories should stay...  Just it seems we can look forward to a total sh*t show whoever is leading the country in the coming years.  Both parties are still clearly jokes.

Its all so f**king depressing...

Useless evil Tories or Terrorist loving antisemites.  What a choice!

This.

[steviewevie]

60 Labour rebels apparently.