news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

3 hours ago, Ozanne said:

 

might have happened like that but countries don't normally play the sap for another country like that.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

[fred quimby]

5 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

With 50% of our energy coming from fossil fuels it clearly isn't so simple.  

I am sure it is simple but too much vested interest and people just make it more complicated than it needs to be. Like alot of things.

[Skip997]

12 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

I am sure it is simple but too much vested interest and people just make it more complicated than it needs to be. Like alot of things.

This is the main issue.

Things could be a lot better if it weren't for greed.

[lazyred]

25 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

I am sure it is simple but too much vested interest and people just make it more complicated than it needs to be. Like alot of things.

What technology is available now or in the near future to guarantee power supplies without gas or oil?

Stopping out oil and gas would make us poorer, less secure and have negligable effect on net zero

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/08/insanity-petrostates-planning-huge-expansion-of-fossil-fuels-says-un-report

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by lazyred

[lazyred]

We need nuclear, onshore/offshore wind and wave power plus battery storage and a new grid of pylons. Any attempt to do these are delayed by planning objections often led by oppurtunistic local politicians against their own party policies. 

Scottish Greens objected to Grangemouth oil refinery closing.

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2023/11/greens-accused-of-brass-neck-over-grangemouth-plan/

In my area objections to wind farms on the moors and Leeds council blocking a battery storage facility

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgpdelny7zo

 

[stuartbert two hats]

On 12/6/2023 at 4:24 PM, steviewevie said:

interesting poll on this one...

 

This was particularly prescient 

 

[steviewevie]

even greenies like Monbiot know we have to transition and we can't switch off fossil fuel use over night, but obviously he wants this transtion to happen as quickly and as widespread as possible because he has looked at the data and it scares the poop poop out of him. I try to avoid reading his stuff because it scares the poop poop out of me too so I just stick my head in the sand. But he's right about the vested interests bit, fossil fuel industry is big and powerful and wants to stay that way. 

Anyway, here's something to scare the poop poop out of you too.

The ‘flickering’ of Earth systems is warning us: act now, or see our already degraded paradise lost | George Monbiot | The Guardian

Here’s a question Cop28 won’t address: why are billionaires blocking action to save the planet? | George Monbiot | The Guardian

[Skip997]

It should be quite clear to anyone who has been paying attention, that unless we make massive changes to an unprecedented level and ASAP, then we are doomed.

The problem is that the majority of the population would be against a lot of the necessary changes.

 

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

It should be quite clear to anyone who has been paying attention, that unless we make massive changes to an unprecedented level and ASAP, then we are doomed.

The problem is that the majority of the population would be against a lot of the necessary changes.

 

but as that Peter Hitchens said, what we do will mean diddlysquat unless China, India and US start reducing their emissions.

[steviewevie]

UN Security Council going to vote on a Israel/Hamas ceasefire...which I guess US and maybe UK will veto...which just adds to the fact that the UN security council thing is just unworkable.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

but as that Peter Hitchens said, what we do will mean diddlysquat unless China, India and US start reducing their emissions.

Of course, but a significant proportion of India and China's emissions (esp China) are actually ours. They produce a huge amount of unnecessary shite for us, exactly the sort of shite that we need to stop producing immediately.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

UN Security Council going to vote on a Israel/Hamas ceasefire...which I guess US and maybe UK will veto...which just adds to the fact that the UN security council thing is just unworkable.

It might be workable if they actually enforced their resolutions.

Up until 10 years ago Israeli had ignored round about 40.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Of course, but a significant proportion of India and China's emissions (esp China) are actually ours. They produce a huge amount of unnecessary shite for us, exactly the sort of shite that we need to stop producing immediately.

well ok yeah...they also have massive populations that are becoming wealthier and also want unnecessary shite. Unnecessary shite is the opiate of the masses.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

If only you held the terrorists to account....  Can you even bring yourself to call them terrorists ? 

Who me?

Afraid I can't really do much about the situation.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

You can start by calling them out as terrorists ?  

The IDF?

No problem

[steviewevie]

Looks like US will vote against, but will UK do same or abstain or even vote for a ceasefire? I'm betting abstain.

After the killing and destruction ends, somehow the heat needs to be taken out of this. Palestine side saying river to sea and Israel must be destroyed is not going to solve this, and Israeli side constantly undermining the Palestinian existence and further settling on Palestinian land is not going to help either. Both sides need to accept the other, both have legitimate reasons for self determination in that region, they need to co-exist if there is ever going to be peace. A western secular liberal one state solution would be lovely, but that isn't going to happen. A two state solution is probably the best that can be hoped for. A safe and secure Israel, and a valid, viable, secure and sovereign Palestinian state. Maybe it will happen one day, or maybe they will keep on killing each other, forever and ever, amen.

[fred quimby]

2 hours ago, lazyred said:

What technology is available now or in the near future to guarantee power supplies without gas or oil?

 

I think you answered it in your following post. 

[Skip997]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

After the killing and destruction ends, somehow the heat needs to be taken out of this.

Won't be necessary, there will only be one side left.

[lazyred]

48 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

It should be quite clear to anyone who has been paying attention, that unless we make massive changes to an unprecedented level and ASAP, then we are doomed.

The problem is that the majority of the population would be against a lot of the necessary changes.

 

Being apocalyptic is part of the problem. All the extinction nonsense and Just Stop Oil hypocrisy puts people off. We're in transition to net zero but oil and gas won't disappear. It looks like we can get to net zero by 2050 and limit the temperature rise to 2 degrees. Its not great and it wil have big effects on people but its not the end of the world.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, lazyred said:

 Its not great and it wil have big effects on people but its not the end of the world.

famous last words.

[lazyred]

2 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

I think you answered it in your following post. 

Well yeah. I suppose the difference between us is timescales. I have a diesel van and a gas boiler. If I'm using gas and oil I'd rather it came from the  north sea than import it.

[Skip997]

1 minute ago, lazyred said:

Being apocalyptic is part of the problem. All the extinction nonsense and Just Stop Oil hypocrisy puts people off. We're in transition to net zero but oil and gas won't disappear. It looks like we can get to net zero by 2050 and limit the temperature rise to 2 degrees. Its not great and it wil have big effects on people but its not the end of the world.

Which will be disastrous. It will result in the deaths and displacement of millions, if not billions. Which will lead to wars over land and resources.

I really don't think many understand just where we're going or how quickly.

By the way what is your made up accusation of hypocrisy?