news & politics:discussion

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

I guess I could go and look at some trees or something.

ive recently got into buying houseplants 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

As we’ve discussed many times the policy itself is the same, you are just fixated on the £28b being spent on it.

The media have an agenda so try to cause issues and pressure Labour into dropping the policy. I imagine that’s the reason this Labour ‘source’ leaks this stuff too.

man alive, blame me or blame journalists...Labour came up with the policy, they came up with this pledge, they were shouting about it for ages, they kind of still are...well  some of them are...kind of whispering it...and Tories are ready to attack them on it. So, they going to defend it, or drop it because they're scared?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

ive recently got into buying houseplants 

from poundshops?

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

from poundshops?

Do they even exist ? With inflation they need a rename . 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

And here you've just partly illustrated why we are ultimately f**ked.

 

and I'm not even going to vote Green.

And I drove to work today. And now I'm on the internet which uses f**k loads of energy.

We need a proper virus to get rid of us greedy evil consumerists.

Actually and need to take out my dog the horrible little carnivore c**t.

[steviewevie]

Just now, Crazyfool01 said:

Do they even exist ? With inflation they need a rename . 

Wow!

Got your own little rainforest there.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

man alive, blame me or blame journalists...Labour came up with the policy, they came up with this pledge, they were shouting about it for ages, they kind of still are...well  some of them are...kind of whispering it...and Tories are ready to attack them on it. So, they going to defend it, or drop it because they're scared?

They came up with the policy, yet all people are going on about is the £28b which is why they’re trying to veer away from that. They do defend the policy, they do it every time the media spin this story. The media act like this because it works, the cycle continues. 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Wow!

Got your own little rainforest there.

Carbon capture inside 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

They came up with the policy, yet all people are going on about is the £28b which is why they’re trying to veer away from that. They do defend the policy, they do it every time the media spin this story. The media act like this because it works, the cycle continues. 

in the end the whole thing is just a signal...28bn/year is not going to cover it, they need private investment, the state is there to help with that, hence this pledge..infrastructure etc...but business will need reassurance and certainty before they start chucking money at it...this is what Reeves is trying to do...but not confirming this pledge just throws some uncertainty in there. I understand why, because Tories will attack them on it, just wish there could be a bit more honesty with it all.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Actually and need to take out my dog the horrible little carnivore c**t.

and I mean "take out"...not go for a poopooweewee in the local park.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

in the end the whole thing is just a signal...28bn/year is not going to cover it, they need private investment, the state is there to help with that, hence this pledge..infrastructure etc...but business will need reassurance and certainty before they start chucking money at it...this is what Reeves is trying to do...but not confirming this pledge just throws some uncertainty in there. I understand why, because Tories will attack them on it, just wish there could be a bit more honesty with it all.

If they say that’s why they are doing it then they look weak and open themselves up to more attacks.

The signal from Labour over and over is that they remain committed to the green policies so I’m not sure how many more times they need to say it. The £28b part has become what Labour feared it would, it’s become this albatross around their neck so they should veer away from that. As long as they remain committed to the policy’s goals then that should give businesses the certainty they need.

I look forward to this exact same chat in a few days time 😉

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

If they say that’s why they are doing it then they look weak and open themselves up to more attacks.

The signal from Labour over and over is that they remain committed to the green policies so I’m not sure how many more times they need to say it. The £28b part has become what Labour feared it would, it’s become this albatross around their neck so they should veer away from that. As long as they remain committed to the policy’s goals then that should give businesses the certainty they need.

I look forward to this exact same chat in a few days time 😉

ok, well they were not forced into the 28bn pledge...they themselves came up with it. I guess the argument will be that the situation has changed and they can't guarantee that amount will be spent...which hardly instils confidence they will meet any targets, it's not as if everything has got cheaper.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

This again...because I know it floats your boats...

yes the destination is the thing and why focus on the cost, and the tories are ready to attack them on this 28bill profligate big spender labour etc etc....but still, they talk about business wanting certainty, and this is a very good example of uncertainty...and kind of makes it all look a bit ambiguous...and just making them look a bit more flipfloppy and indecisive and divided...they have a healthy lead, just say yeah f**k it we're going to borrow 28bn and spend it on green crap, what you going to do? (maybe they could argue it slightly differently). I don't think people are going to ask in a few years why they haven't actually borrowed 28bn (or if they borrowed more). 

But, looks like they will drop that pledge, sooner or later...looks like will be after the budget...

impossible to meaningfully commit to without time travel to know the future situation for how much money is available to be spent - tories could poison pill it with the next budget.

[steviewevie]

 

[Skip997]

So we're still counting pennies while the world burns

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok, well they were not forced into the 28bn pledge...they themselves came up with it. I guess the argument will be that the situation has changed and they can't guarantee that amount will be spent...which hardly instils confidence they will meet any targets, it's not as if everything has got cheaper.

Is it really the £28b that’s the issue for you? Take that out of the equation and what do you think?

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Neil said:

impossible to meaningfully commit to without time travel to know the future situation for how much money is available to be spent - tories could poison pill it with the next budget.

Labour don’t even know the state of the government finances so they can’t really fully commit to spending plans. If they ever announced a policy without any plans for how it would be funded then there would be uproar. 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Is it really the £28b that’s the issue for you? Take that out of the equation and what do you think?

a big gaping hole called cost.

[lazyred]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Is it really the £28b that’s the issue for you? Take that out of the equation and what do you think?

Its the fiscal rules that need to change in particular the rule about debt falling after five years. They can still reduce the deficit on current spending and use the borrow to invest rule for the green plan 

Edited February 1 by lazyred

[steviewevie]

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

a big gaping hole called cost.

There we go then, damned either way. 

[Neil]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Is it really the £28b that’s the issue for you? Take that out of the equation and what do you think?

I think without it labour would struggle to grow the economy by enough to increase public spending by enough l.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Its the fiscal rules that need to change in particular the rule about debt falling after 5 five years. They can still reduce the deficit on current spending and use the borrow to invest rule for the green plan 

what are the fiscal rules? 

But yeah, that 5 year rule would be quite the restriction...extend to 10 years (2 terms) and they'd have a lot more room to do stuff.

Edited February 1 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

There we go then, damned either way. 

I guess...as Skip says shouldn't worry about counting the pennies...

[Skip997]

The dream of continual growth on a planet with finite resources and susceptible to collapse due to human greed is what's killing this planet.

As a species we actually deserve what's coming