news & politics:discussion

[Gilgamesh69]

I give up. I would honestly rather throw myself off a cliff than read one more line of the dumb shit some of y'all come up with.

Bye.

[SheffJeff]

11 hours ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

So what are people's thoughts on the Palestine situation? I'm in the mood for some Sunday afternoon cringe 

 

4 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

I give up. I would honestly rather throw myself off a cliff than read one more line of the dumb shit some of y'all come up with.

Bye.

Mission achieved I guess.

[LJS]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

It wasn't so much the British solution but the solution of some Indian politicians where those people ended up in powerful positions.

It may or may not have been the "British Solution" but given that Britain effectively "created" India, it was very much the British problem. And the people that "ended up" in powerful positions ended up there how, exactly?

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I was simply pointing out that there's a lot of similarities to Israel of a religious state on Simone else's land.

Maybe, but there are also a huge amount of differences.

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

But like Israel it's not a situation which can be undone as that simply puts other problems back in place

I think there are very few folk on here who think "simply" is a word that can be used when looking for a solution.

I do think simply stating that the tactics used by Hamas are ineffective, does not justify the disproportionate response from Israel. It also implies that it is only the actions of Hamas/Palestine that have led to the current awful situation.

 You appear unwilling to criticise the actions of the Israeli government which currently appear to be firmly rooted in a turbo charged version of the Old Testament - "an eye infirmary for an eye - A dental hospital for a tooth."

[steviewevie]

I guess a one state solution where Jews and Arabs and everyone else has an equal say and vote and representative in government and elsewhere is a nice idea...not sure if could ever work in practice though, not anytime soon anyway...war seems most likely outcome at moment.

 

[mattiloy]

54 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I guess a one state solution where Jews and Arabs and everyone else has an equal say and vote and representative in government and elsewhere is a nice idea...not sure if could ever work in practice though, not anytime soon anyway...war seems most likely outcome at moment.

 

Indeed. Whatever the follies of the past, it would be just as inhumane to evict Israelis who are no more responsible for the sins of their fathers as the palestinians who are currently held responsible by some extremist Israelis (sadly including those in government) for the sins of their greatx20 grandfathers who conquered the region over a millenium ago.

A one state solution is a dodecahedral peg for a round hole at the moment. A lot of work needs to be done to bring the sides together and certainly a complete sea change in Israeli politics (both Likud and the main opposition are hawkish on Palestine).

And so long as the fascistic approach of the Israeli govt is backed without reproach by both major political parties in the US and sadly by both major political in the UK, I think they will continue to act with impunity, including the radicalisation of their youth and the problem will run on for generations. Or at least until they cause a real genocide and even those compromised politicians in the US and UK can’t hold their tongues anymore. Sad, sad, sad.

Edited May 17, 2021 by mattiloy

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, mcshed said:

 

It's pretty apparent you started this as you wanted to wind people up.

I don't think anyone here is trying to defend Israel's actions apart from maybe Neil.

You what I'm simply pointing out that there's two sets of actors in this and that the ssctionds of Israel are the often brought about from the motive of self defense. As you want to name me I'll just point out that others posting here would be quite happy in the Hitler youth. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by eFestivals

[fred quimby]

10 hours ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Maybe you should be more offended by murdered children than by obscenities. If someone is being a dumb c**t and using pisspoor arguments, especially to defend something so despicable, then they deserve it 

Not going to get into it really but you do know that the Palestinians also dress there kids in bombs and send them off to blow up. both sides murder children. This is from people that work in the area that I know and also from folk that have been over there in non work capacity. Just so it is balanced

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

It may or may not have been the "British Solution" but given that Britain effectively "created" India, it was very much the British problem. And the people that "ended up" in powerful positions ended up there how, exactly?

 

The British idea for independence was for one independent India. The idea for a Muslim starte was the Idea of Indian politicians, specifically Neddru who ended up as prime minister. Via a vote of the people so it was an idea supported by people

8 hours ago, LJS said:

Maybe, but there are also a huge amount of differences.

I think there are very few folk on here who think "simply" is a word that can be used when looking for a solution.

I do think simply stating that the tactics used by Hamas are ineffective, does not justify the disproportionate response from Israel. It also implies that it is only the actions of Hamas/Palestine that have led to the current awful situation.

 

It would be a lie to say that the Palestinians actionshave played no part in the current vawful situation

8 hours ago, LJS said:

 You appear unwilling to criticise the actions of the Israeli government which currently appear to be firmly rooted in a turbo charged version of the Old Testament - "an eye infirmary for an eye - A dental hospital for a tooth."

The Israeli govt are c**ts... Ppointed out that they don't recognise opalestinian title to land or property, and that is the issue behind the latest kick off as well as many others. Gi didn't want to joi n n  with the theme behind some of the hatred here. Incomers not allowed. Because somehave irrevocable right to land No reason why Jews might feel they need their own state, etc

[topmarksbri]

21 hours ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

So what are people's thoughts on the Palestine situation? I'm in the mood for some Sunday afternoon cringe 

 

9 hours ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

I give up. I would honestly rather throw myself off a cliff than read one more line of the dumb shit some of y'all come up with.

Bye.

Guess wasn't really in the mood 🤷‍♂️

[mcshed]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You what I'm simply pointing out that there's two sets of actors in this and that the ssctionds of Israel are the often brought about from the motive of self defense. As you want to name me I'll just point out that others posting here would be quite happy in the Hitler youth. 

Others? Isn't it just Gilgamesh.

[mattiloy]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

 

 You appear unwilling to criticise the actions of the Israeli government which currently appear to be firmly rooted in a turbo charged version of the Old Testament - "an eye infirmary for an eye - A dental hospital for a tooth."

It does make me wonder about the theological ties of the conflict - where the old testament, jewish scripture and the koran perhaps put an emphasis on conquering the other guys and the idea of a righteous war in god’s name - the new testament offers a route out of the eternal tit for tat nature of that struggle by emphasising turning the other cheek and ’doing unto others as you would be Done to’ - in addition the main story is one of a great miscarriage of justice and sacrifice rather than one of overcoming the odds to conquer a foe.

Of course, christianity (particularly that which emphasises the old testament) was and is used to justify great evil too so maybe not. But an interesting thought nonetheless.

Using an example from game theory, you could argue that Judaism and Islam would advocate a rational solution to the prisoners dilemma in which all sides engage in tit for tat and are worse off for it, whilst christianity encourages the pursuit of a social optimum even if this is sometimes not achieved.

[topmarksbri]

40 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

It does make me wonder about the theological ties of the conflict

It's interesting though, very early days of Zionism there was a relatively good relationship between Muslims and Jews -  I mean traditionally of course Jews had it far better under the Moors in Spain than under the Christians, they aided the invasion. And a lot of the desire for a Jewish homeland was off the back of Christian pograms in Europe and things like Dreyfus affair. 

[mattiloy]

5 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

It's interesting though, very early days of Zionism there was a relatively good relationship between Muslims and Jews -  I mean traditionally of course Jews had it far better under the Moors in Spain than under the Christians, they aided the invasion. And a lot of the desire for a Jewish homeland was off the back of Christian pograms in Europe and things like Dreyfus affair. 

Yeah, I guess as much as the religious texts then, the degree to which they are used to justify war is usually determined by the environment at play rather than the other way around.

ie. You hear all these hyper religious orthodox Israeli jews (and indeed hyper religious jihadis) holding up their books as justification for their holy war, but their appetite for war and their extreme interpretation of their literature is determined more by the circumstances of the day, rather than the book itself.

The reader as co-author - we always search for and interpret the material we consume in the way that suits us. We might pick up the same physical book, but everybody reads a different one from the next person.

[topmarksbri]

I've defended him a few times on here but this might be the final straw

 

Wearing a rugby top to football is sickening. 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

It does make me wonder about the theological ties of the conflict - where the old testament, jewish scripture and the koran perhaps put an emphasis on conquering the other guys and the idea of a righteous war in god’s name - the new testament offers a route out of the eternal tit for tat nature of that struggle by emphasising turning the other cheek and ’doing unto others as you would be Done to’ - in addition the main story is one of a great miscarriage of justice and sacrifice rather than one of overcoming the odds to conquer a foe.

 

It goes deeper than that these are parts pof the world where there's still a lot of weight to the idea of blood fueds. Something just about absent from Western society. 

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

Of course, christianity (particularly that which emphasises the old testament) was and is used to justify great evil too so maybe not. But an interesting thought nonetheless.

Using an example from game theory, you could argue that Judaism and Islam would advocate a rational solution to the prisoners dilemma in which all sides engage in tit for tat and are worse off for it, whilst christianity encourages the pursuit of a social optimum even if this is sometimes not achieved.

 

[Copperface]

An MP writes:

 

[eFestivals]

2 hours ago, mcshed said:

Others? Isn't it just Gilgamesh.

Mostly quite a few have stepped over the line or got close to doing so by identifying issues only on one side. 

[HalfAnIdiot]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Well because the bellend didn't say it in parliament with all the protections that gives him, he may well just get sued 🙂 

Given that he has a Law degree he probably knows that 🙄

[eFestivals]

38 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Sipping that beer like a proper southern shandy pants as well

Because only gods own northerners are righteous enough to drink beer properly. Beer is actually a southern drink spirits is the northern drink. demonstrated right round the world. 

[HalfAnIdiot]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Which make it even more stupid ? 

Or perhaps he means it? 

Do you think Boris would risk suing him? 

[HalfAnIdiot]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

Sure Mr Shandy pants 🙂   

You might have a point if we are going as north as Scotland - but not around Manchester etc 🙂   Its beer me old mucker 😄 

Boddington's 🤮

Edited May 17, 2021 by HalfAnIdiot

[mcshed]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Which make it even more stupid ? 

That's the point of the tweet, he is saying in a way that would be challengeable that Boris is corrupt as he believes he can back up his view that Boris is corrupt.

[squirrelarmy]

20 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Or perhaps he means it? 

Do you think Boris would risk suing him? 

In order for any legal challenge by Bojo to be successful he would have to first prove that he is not corrupt and then being accused of being corrupt would lead to a counter suit of libel. 
 

Bojo won’t challenge it as there is likely to be multiple instances of corruption to be found if anyone looked into it. His best option is to not draw attention to it and let it be lost among all the other many accusations that are piling up. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, topmarksbri said:

I've defended him a few times on here but this might be the final straw

 

Wearing a rugby top to football is sickening. 

Camden beer is my favourite beer, what a guy. 
 

35 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

In order for any legal challenge by Bojo to be successful he would have to first prove that he is not corrupt and then being accused of being corrupt would lead to a counter suit of libel. 
 

Bojo won’t challenge it as there is likely to be multiple instances of corruption to be found if anyone looked into it. His best option is to not draw attention to it and let it be lost among all the other many accusations that are piling up. 

The many inquiries against Johnson will likely find he’s corrupt, this one tweet by an MP won’t cause any issue. 

[topmarksbri]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Camden beer is my favourite beer, what a guy. 

Those stubby glasses aren't great though, always feel like I'm getting less than a pint.