news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

50 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is what Keir Starmer says about the report released today on the Climate Crises and also has a bit on what a Labour government would do about it. 

You mean this?

Because that contains no information whatsoever on what Labour would do.

Just more braindead blithering from the artist formerly known as forensic.

The Labour frontbench has a major knowledge gap on the environment after promoting a load of neolibs and sacking anybody with an authentic interest in environmentalism. Actually is has a knowledge gap across the piste.

Its not looking good when both major parties are dominated by yesterdays men who have no idea how to define let along tackle the problems of the 21st century. Most of which the dogma they follow actually caused and continues to exacerbate.

[Crazyfool01]

Maybe we might get a bigger green party push at the next election ? It’s certainly scary shit that needs something decisive … not just non promises … 

[fred quimby]

12 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Maybe we might get a bigger green party push at the next election ? It’s certainly scary shit that needs something decisive … not just non promises … 

I do not hold out much hope, think there will be loads of promises. Hope I am wrong and some just don't think short term. We have the means to do it.

 

Was listening to any questions the other day and the Tory woman was saying they will be investing heavily in the Green economy and jobs. When asked what she meant by green jobs she came back with - People who work in care jobs, that kind of thing. They all talk shit the lot of them

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, fred quimby said:

I do not hold out much hope, think there will be loads of promises. Hope I am wrong and some just don't think short term. We have the means to do it.

 

Was listening to any questions the other day and the Tory woman was saying they will be investing heavily in the Green economy and jobs. When asked what she meant by green jobs she came back with - People who work in care jobs, that kind of thing. They all talk shit the lot of them

Yeah thats the concern … and actually the only party I see as having policy’s that go far enough or directly adress it will be the greens … but how far their policy’s go to adress other issues that will be needed at the same time … so some kind of coalition might be the best outcome … 

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Yeah thats the concern … and actually the only party I see as having policy’s that go far enough or directly adress it will be the greens … but how far their policy’s go to adress other issues that will be needed at the same time … so some kind of coalition might be the best outcome … 

Green party are all over the shop, they have their own divisions, and both leaders have just quit. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for them. I think we're just going to have to hope that the government we have make the right decisions and get us to net zero in the next few decade...but, in the end this is a global issue and we really need the big boys like US, Russia, India and China to move away from fossil fuels etc...and for Brazil to leave the amazon alone. Hopefully scientific breakthroughs save us...if there is money to be made then maybe we have a chance. Or maybe all the billionaires are building rockets to get the fuck out of here.

[fred quimby]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Green party are all over the shop, they have their own divisions, and both leaders have just quit. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for them. I think we're just going to have to hope that the government we have make the right decisions and get us to net zero in the next few decade...but, in the end this is a global issue and we really need the big boys like US, Russia, India and China to move away from fossil fuels etc...and for Brazil to leave the amazon alone. Hopefully scientific breakthroughs save us...if there is money to be made then maybe we have a chance. Or maybe all the billionaires are building rockets to get the fuck out of here.

Certainly needs that global effort. hoping China will lead the way but very unsure on that.

Hate those space tourism rockets (Although would love to go). When Branson was asked about the environmental impact his team came back with - Well all the experiments in space help the human race improve and achieve better results. Bullshit how does a short flight allow that you knob. yes space station stuff but not a 10 minute weightless thrill ride

[SheffJeff]

US and China have the same emissions as the next 30 countries combined so it does feel like we're pissing in the wind a bit (UK was 101 million tonnes in 2019).  That's not to say we shouldn't do anything but as Stevie says we need the bigger boys to play ball to give us a fighting chance.

[mattiloy]

12 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

US and China have the same emissions as the next 30 countries combined so it does feel like we're pissing in the wind a bit (UK was 101 million tonnes in 2019).  That's not to say we shouldn't do anything but as Stevie says we need the bigger boys to play ball to give us a fighting chance.

Point of order, China has nearly 5x as many people living there as the USA.

It also has around 15* the population of Germany - which incidentally is around the same factor that their emissions are greater than Germanys.

More than a little unfair to single out China who are actually a bit ahead of the curve than many western countries on the environment, and may very well end up saving us all given they are the only major economy not totally beholden to the pursuit of endless growth.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Point of order, China has nearly 5x as many people living there as the USA.

It also has around 15* the population of Germany - which incidentally is around the same factor that their emissions are greater than Germanys.

More than a little unfair to single out China who are actually a bit ahead of the curve than many western countries on the environment, and may very well end up saving us all given they are the only major economy not totally beholden to the pursuit of endless growth.

they also had policy to control population growth didnt they ? although not sure that exists any longer .... over population being one of the massive problems we face .... 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

they also had policy to control population growth didnt they ? although not sure that exists any longer .... over population being one of the massive problems we face .... 

they are in process of binning that due to aging population problems seen elsewhere. The challenge for China is massive, huge population becoming wealthier and wanting more things. They need to move away from using coal, but at moment they're still building new coal plants.

[Avalon_Fields]

38 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Point of order, China has nearly 5x as many people living there as the USA.

It also has around 15* the population of Germany - which incidentally is around the same factor that their emissions are greater than Germanys.

More than a little unfair to single out China who are actually a bit ahead of the curve than many western countries on the environment, and may very well end up saving us all given they are the only major economy not totally beholden to the pursuit of endless growth.

I agree it's unfair to just single out China, particularly as much of their industry is dedicated to providing goods for the Western markets.

I completely disagree about the comments on their growth. Have you seen their relentless growth figure over many years now? Vastly more than the UK and the EU for example. It's driven by their desire to be the dominant superpower, they are totally beholden to growth.

[SheffJeff]

32 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Point of order, China has nearly 5x as many people living there as the USA.

It also has around 15* the population of Germany - which incidentally is around the same factor that their emissions are greater than Germanys.

More than a little unfair to single out China who are actually a bit ahead of the curve than many western countries on the environment, and may very well end up saving us all given they are the only major economy not totally beholden to the pursuit of endless growth.

All fair points... the US and Germany are both worse on carbon emissions in relation to population then China.  The article I got the image from though was discussing Chinas increase in emissions...  it was a moving bar chart thingy but I couldn't work out how to insert the fucker (link to article below).  I thought it was an interesting way of showing how emissions had changed over the years by country and found it worrying that Chinas carbon emissions had more than trebled in the past 20 years from 914 to 2776 million tonnes.  While in the UK we had managed to reduce ours from 155 to 101 which is diddly squat and again doesn't factor in our much smaller population.    

Anyway I know next to nowt about this issue really... just think we're bolloxed whatever we do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-57483492 

[Guest]

 

A 4 point swing to Labour, this is the closest poll for a while!

[steviewevie]

This one's for Ozanne.

 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

 

A 4 point swing to Labour, this is the closest poll for a while!

man, unbelievable. One day I will get there first.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

man, unbelievable. One day I will get there first.

i think hes got a direct line to Kier 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

All fair points... the US and Germany are both worse on carbon emissions in relation to population then China.  The article I got the image from though was discussing Chinas increase in emissions...  it was a moving bar chart thingy but I couldn't work out how to insert the fucker (link to article below).  I thought it was an interesting way of showing how emissions had changed over the years by country and found it worrying that Chinas carbon emissions had more than trebled in the past 20 years from 914 to 2776 million tonnes.  While in the UK we had managed to reduce ours from 155 to 101 which is diddly squat and again doesn't factor in our much smaller population.    

Anyway I know next to nowt about this issue really... just think we're bolloxed whatever we do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-57483492 

China have developed rapidly, and have a massive population...that's the reason. But, there are reasons to be optimistic with the way China is going, as outlined in that bbc article...

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

man, unbelievable. One day I will get there first.

I might have been waiting for it, the Election Maps UK Twitter page had hinted earlier on about this poll.

4 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

i think hes got a direct line to Kier 

If only.

[mattiloy]

2 hours ago, Avalon_Fields said:

I agree it's unfair to just single out China, particularly as much of their industry is dedicated to providing goods for the Western markets.

I completely disagree about the comments on their growth. Have you seen their relentless growth figure over many years now? Vastly more than the UK and the EU for example. It's driven by their desire to be the dominant superpower, they are totally beholden to growth.

They have liberalised their economy and benefitted from becoming the workshop of the world and why not when that delivers better outcomes for the people. 

But its not true that this is motivated by the same belief in the virtue of the market and shareholder value maximisation, along with its ability to solve all problems.

So when problems like this arise, I’d reckon China would fuck market economics off quicker than the west - where that ideology is still absolutely entrenched in politics and business.

And sadly in the uk, thanks to the shift in direction by Labour, its now the dominant economic philosophy in both major parties. The only real options left are the Green party and the celtic nationalist parties.

[steviewevie]

40 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

And sadly in the uk, thanks to the shift in direction by Labour, its now the dominant economic philosophy in both major parties. The only real options left are the Green party and the celtic nationalist parties.

tories are all for state aid etc under Johnson...maybe neo-lib policies are dead in this country (and in US). Of course Starmer is a neo lib fascist, I mean it's obvious, you just have to look at his chin and suit.

[steviewevie]

Green Vortex

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/06/climate-change-green-vortex-america/619228/

[mattiloy]

17 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Green Vortex

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/06/climate-change-green-vortex-america/619228/

what a very liberal way to admit that any advance that reducing climate change is achieved by the state, through r&d usually paid for by the taxpayer and subsidies paid for by the taxpayer - whilst business just creams off the profits and slows down progress.

the reality of climate change doesn't allow the liberals to do their half arsed, milquetoast nonsense anymore. free market economics, capitalism, the interest of shareholders, whatever you wanna call it, simply slows things down and at the moment it seems like time isn't something there is an abundance of.

unfortunately, liberals will carry on anyway. carry on writing this drivel and attempting to play both sides. happily lining their own pockets, making no adjustments to their life style, whilst ostentatiously expressing their disgruntledness at the state of things.

liberals will cry about bolsanaro cutting down the amazon whilst waxing liberal about the 'beauty' of the barren british uplands, happily getting behind sheep/grouse farm subsidies, oblivious to the fact that whats happening to the amazon already happened here, and could be reversed by simply not paying the people who own the land anymore taxpayers money... 

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

what a very liberal way to admit that any advance that reducing climate change is achieved by the state, through r&d usually paid for by the taxpayer and subsidies paid for by the taxpayer - whilst business just creams off the profits and slows down progress.

the reality of climate change doesn't allow the liberals to do their half arsed, milquetoast nonsense anymore. free market economics, capitalism, the interest of shareholders, whatever you wanna call it, simply slows things down and at the moment it seems like time isn't something there is an abundance of.

unfortunately, liberals will carry on anyway. carry on writing this drivel and attempting to play both sides. happily lining their own pockets, making no adjustments to their life style, whilst ostentatiously expressing their disgruntledness at the state of things.

liberals will cry about bolsanaro cutting down the amazon whilst waxing liberal about the 'beauty' of the barren british uplands, happily getting behind sheep/grouse farm subsidies, oblivious to the fact that whats happening to the amazon already happened here, and could be reversed by simply not paying the people who own the land anymore taxpayers money... 

love the way you're using liberals derogatively, but you're pinning you're hope on the CCP authortarian, non democratic, state allowed free market way of running things because that seems to be the only alternative.

Anyway, pointless saying which ideology is the best, all sides are doing a pretty good job of fucking the planet. Socialism alone isn't going to save the planet, it is going to be have to be a mixure of state intervention, new technologies, and a whole bunch of massive lifestyle changes for a lot of people.

Edited August 9, 2021 by steviewevie

[guypjfreak]

It's too late to save the planet... Especially if everyone argues politics.... Fuck politics it's a of bollox just get on and DO SOMETHING.... 

[steviewevie]

Turn off the heating, don't fly, don't drive, don't eat meat. Simple