news & politics:discussion

[maelzoid]

Yeah I’m not surprised that 2/3 support it. The tax will mostly affect 1/3 of the population….

National Insurance absolutely should not be used for things like social care, it was set up to provide pensions and unemployment benefits, and you’re only able to claim those things if you paid in to start with (more or less). 
 

If anything, income tax should be raised, but the tories know that looks worse to the public, even though on a practical level, it’s the same thing. 

[squirrelarmy]

4 minutes ago, maelzoid said:

National Insurance absolutely should not be used for things like social care, it was set up to provide pensions and unemployment benefits, and you’re only able to claim those things if you paid in to start with

Doesn’t social care fall into the same category? 
 

Lots of people who depend on social care have spent a lifetime working before needing it whether it’s down to age, illness or an accident. 

[maelzoid]

3 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Doesn’t social care fall into the same category? 
 

Lots of people who depend on social care have spent a lifetime working before needing it whether it’s down to age, illness or an accident. 

I disagree. Social Care should come under general taxation in a similar way to health care via the NHS. To claim a pension you need to pay into NI, and I don't think that social care should be available only to those that have enough NI years. In fact, many people who need social care cannot work at all so it should come from a totally different system (ie the larger tax budget from income and business taxes).

NI was set up with very specific goals and the tories are trying to adjust those goals because it's an easier sell than just raising income tax.

In 1975, the NI rate was 5.5%. It has slowly risen to 12% since then with most rises coming under the tories.

Edited September 6, 2021 by maelzoid
typo

[steviewevie]

3 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Doesn’t social care fall into the same category? 
 

Lots of people who depend on social care have spent a lifetime working before needing it whether it’s down to age, illness or an accident. 

Yeah, and they're going to increase the threshold when can receive social care so a lot more will be using it too.m

Maybe using capital gains would be fairer, but that might fuck off the Tory base.

[steviewevie]

Nice big fudge on NI border checks...just keep as is indefinitely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/06/uk-and-eu-extend-post-brexit-grace-period-over-northern-ireland-protocol

[steviewevie]

Big day for Bojo today. I expect he'll get it through, deals with MPs over vaccine passports and threats to ministers over a reshuffle, might be close though. He just lies and gets away with it again and again, it is a strategy that works obviously. Not sure why anyone believed his manifesto anyway, a plan for social care, loads of spending pledges but no increase in borrowing and no increase in tax/ni. Something had to give. But, at least now we finally might be about to do something about social care, and the realisation that this money has to come from somewhere, and NI is probably the least problematic politically.

[steviewevie]

turns out it's all going on NHS anyway. Thought brexit was paying for that?

 

[mattiloy]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Big day for Bojo today. I expect he'll get it through, deals with MPs over vaccine passports and threats to ministers over a reshuffle, might be close though. He just lies and gets away with it again and again, it is a strategy that works obviously. Not sure why anyone believed his manifesto anyway, a plan for social care, loads of spending pledges but no increase in borrowing and no increase in tax/ni. Something had to give. But, at least now we finally might be about to do something about social care, and the realisation that this money has to come from somewhere, and NI is probably the least problematic politically.

 

Yes good to spend more on social care but unwise to reduce the number of £ in the pockets of lower income earners at the moment, via both this and the jobseekers cut at once. Its austerity lite and will negatively effect consumption and put a bit of a drag on the recovery.

Least problematic politically amongst affluent tories maybe but the new red wall mob won’t like it. It would be a definite wound for starmer to open up if he wasn’t completely useless.

Taxing rental income and/or dividends more would have been a better bet. But then it’d probs have needed to be a bigger rise so may have been more unpalateable, although to fewer people.

[Guest]

It seems Boris Johnson thinks he took over from Labour. He’s happy to blame Labour for not having done anything for social care for ‘decades’ yet he’s ignoring the Tories have been in power for 11 years now. 

[steviewevie]

 

[eFestivals]

So spaffers lies have come back on him, and he's having to increase taxes to pay for extra services, who'd have thought it?

[mattiloy]

Odds on a few tory minister’s cousin’s mate’s sister-in-law leaving their jobs as - wedding planners/horse groomers/florists/miscellaneous other toff jobs - to suddenly setup companies in care provision securing hefty govt contracts?…

Its because of their expertise you see - Petronella and Artemis did ever so well visiting their great uncle lord montagu when he was laid up with gout

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Odds on a few tory minister’s cousin’s mate’s sister-in-law leaving their jobs as - wedding planners/horse groomers/florists/miscellaneous other toff jobs - to suddenly setup companies in care provision securing hefty govt contracts?…

Its because of their expertise you see - Petronella and Artemis did ever so well visiting their great uncle lord montagu when he was laid up with gout

I think there's already plenty of service companies, problem is they don't have the money to attract and keep staff to fulfil the contracts they've already got.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I think there's already plenty of service companies, problem is they don't have the money to attract and keep staff to fulfil the contracts they've already got.

Maybe they should bring in some staff from other countries 😂

[mattiloy]

[Guest]

Just now, mattiloy said:

He’s not wrong. 

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Maybe they should bring in some staff from other countries 😂

Problems are worse than that, the people dishing out contracts don't know what the providers can do, such as support for people navigating stairs, a very standard need, which providers won't do, it takes a year to process a request for a stairlift. The only sensible alternative. But people are still discharged from hospital with care contracts to cover stairs it's like no one knows it's not available.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Problems are worse than that, the people dishing out contracts don't know what the providers can do, such as support for people navigating stairs, a very standard need, which providers won't do, it takes a year to process a request for a stairlift. The only sensible alternative. But people are still discharged from hospital with care contracts to cover stairs it's like no one knows it's not available.

Talking of which … wens freedom day the 2nd ? 

[fred quimby]

36 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Surely it should be #TaxTheRichMore   as they will be taxed

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

Surely it should be #TaxTheRichMore   as they will be taxed

 

I'm currently taking up a hosital bed because there isn't the social care available to move me on to another hospital bed, where I'llbe got ready for discharge, and I'm surrounded by people in a similar situation. If the govt gets this right it'll pay for itself with NHS savings. 

[fred quimby]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm currently taking up a hosital bed because there isn't the social care available to move me on to another hospital bed, where I'llbe got ready for discharge, and I'm surrounded by people in a similar situation. If the govt gets this right it'll pay for itself with NHS savings. 

Oh yea indeed, just was being a bit silly about the hashtag, shouting tax the rich does nothing.

Yes they really need to join it all up properly, as you say you should be out in social care, which has places at the mo which ends up being cheaper (At present). Big opportunity to actually do something here.

[efcfanwirral]

 

This seems a little insane to me - didn't we used to have "periodic sunny weather" in the old days or does all weather have to come with an apocalypse warning now?

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

This seems a little insane to me - didn't we used to have "periodic sunny weather" in the old days or does all weather have to come with an apocalypse warning now?

That guy is slightly overreacting but it isn’t normally this hot in September.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

This seems a little insane to me - didn't we used to have "periodic sunny weather" in the old days or does all weather have to come with an apocalypse warning now?

It's all over by Thursday.

[Crazyfool01]

What a bloody mess the world is in .... Kinda glad I dont have any dependants at the moment