news & politics:discussion

[waterfalls21234]

Not posted for a long time, obviously glasto is still far in the future and god knows if itll even be `allowed` to take place giving the current assholes in charge, however I do have to say seeing as I got so so so much shit for it at the time of the last election..... hey @eFestivals hows that `moderate` labour leadership working out for you? sunk without a trace thanks to no fire, no passion, no drive and very much on the fence and uninspiring in everything. stamer IS mr grey and labour will never go anywhere with this kind of attitude, just as we really need a firebrand opposition to hold the govt to account as well....shame that. Proud to say I was right 😛

 

[topmarksbri]

1 hour ago, Gingerfish79 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/13/keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-suspension?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
makes for interesting/concerning reading 

Red Len is a crook with an axe to grind, he's also gone on record as saying that he hasn't spoken to Starmer as relationship has broken down - so which is it?

27 minutes ago, waterfalls21234 said:

Not posted for a long time, obviously glasto is still far in the future and god knows if itll even be `allowed` to take place giving the current assholes in charge, however I do have to say seeing as I got so so so much shit for it at the time of the last election..... hey @eFestivals hows that `moderate` labour leadership working out for you? sunk without a trace thanks to no fire, no passion, no drive and very much on the fence and uninspiring in everything. stamer IS mr grey and labour will never go anywhere with this kind of attitude, just as we really need a firebrand opposition to hold the govt to account as well....shame that. Proud to say I was right 😛

 

Kind of weird time to post this when Labour are polling better than they have in ages...

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

Lens got a book out.

That Starmer is a slithery 🐍 is not news though, this was known to be the case at the time. Bit of extra lighter fluid to keep things ticking over until conference anyway. Unless they vet the audience, I reckon the fat controller will get booed off during his speech.

he's not fat, he's big boned, and has an amazing chin.

[mattiloy]

34 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

he's not fat, he's big boned, and has an amazing chin.

Agree to disagree

[steviewevie]

Just now, mattiloy said:

Agree to disagree

FAKE!

[Gingerfish79]

I get the ‘Red Len’ point and I understand he has an axe to grind and a book to sell, but it was the ‘more than a hint’ that Starmer is about to drop the principles of the last manifesto that raised my eyebrows. Len will still be extremely well connective so has probably got wind of which way Starmer is going in his conference speech.

KS was elected leader because he promised to try to unite the party and keep to the fundamentals of that 2017 manifesto. He clearly had no intention of doing either. If he had demonstrated that he could take the fight to the Cons and potentially win power then he might get away with it, but that sure as shit isn’t the case. This Labour conferences is going to be explosive and Starmer may well end up being just as divisive as JC.

[steviewevie]

19 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

I get the ‘Red Len’ point and I understand he has an axe to grind and a book to sell, but it was the ‘more than a hint’ that Starmer is about to drop the principles of the last manifesto that raised my eyebrows. Len will still be extremely well connective so has probably got wind of which way Starmer is going in his conference speech.

KS was elected leader because he promised to try to unite the party and keep to the fundamentals of that 2017 manifesto. He clearly had no intention of doing either. If he had demonstrated that he could take the fight to the Cons and potentially win power then he might get away with it, but that sure as shit isn’t the case. This Labour conferences is going to be explosive and Starmer may well end up being just as divisive as JC.

Sir Keir's going to go full blairite centrist dad.

Edited September 13, 2021 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

For those who love a bit of fun with polls.

 

[mattiloy]

8 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

I get the ‘Red Len’ point and I understand he has an axe to grind and a book to sell, but it was the ‘more than a hint’ that Starmer is about to drop the principles of the last manifesto that raised my eyebrows. Len will still be extremely well connective so has probably got wind of which way Starmer is going in his conference speech.

KS was elected leader because he promised to try to unite the party and keep to the fundamentals of that 2017 manifesto. He clearly had no intention of doing either. If he had demonstrated that he could take the fight to the Cons and potentially win power then he might get away with it, but that sure as shit isn’t the case. This Labour conferences is going to be explosive and Starmer may well end up being just as divisive as JC.

I don’t know what the mix will be at the conference since a lot of the left have left the party and those that haven’t are probably not too enthused about laying down the ££s on attending. But it would be lovely if by some miracle David Evans’ appointment as general secretary was not approved.

[steviewevie]

Scorchio!

 

[waterfalls21234]

8 hours ago, topmarksbri said:

Kind of weird time to post this when Labour are polling better than they have in ages...

Polls mean sod all away from election time as people will say anything when they don't have to act on it anytime soon. What matters is he's not doing his job, labour are not acting like opposition other then a few backbenchers who still have a bit of left wing fire left in them (watch it though if you speak to passionately stamer will try to 'cull' you for not being moderate enough 😋.)

The tory Party and boris in particular have got away with so so so much over the last couple of years with barely any challenge. You say Labour are polling well? Considering the fuck ups of the opposition, the skeletons in boris's and others closets that have been aired, the complete cack handling of the covid crisis they should be miles ahead by now! The fact that despite all that they are still only just polling now around the same as the tory party is not something to be proud of! Stamers has so many things he could have utterly roasted boris for as of late but he hasn't, because he has no fire, he's a coward and a total bore to be fair. Taking a stand just isn't in his dna!

 

I dread to think of what will happen if he's still in charge come election time. Mr Grey couldn't inspire a piss up in a brewery.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by waterfalls21234

[mcshed]

1 hour ago, waterfalls21234 said:

Mr Grey

I know you are using Mr Grey in a "John Major is grey" super bland way but "Mr Grey" thanks to some best selling books now conjours up the image of a naughty sexy boss. Do you want Sir Keir to take you into his red room?

Edited September 14, 2021 by mcshed

[squirrelarmy]

1 hour ago, waterfalls21234 said:

Polls mean sod all away from election time as people will say anything when they don't have to act on it anytime soon. What matters is he's not doing his job, labour are not acting like opposition other then a few backbenchers who still have a bit of left wing fire left in them (watch it though if you speak to passionately stamer will try to 'cull' you for not being moderate enough 😋.)

The tory Party and boris in particular have got away with so so so much over the last couple of years with barely any challenge. You say Labour are polling well? Considering the fuck ups of the opposition, the skeletons in boris's and others closets that have been aired, the complete cack handling of the covid crisis they should be miles ahead by now! The fact that despite all that they are still only just polling now around the same as the tory party is not something to be proud of! Stamers has so many things he could have utterly roasted boris for as of late but he hasn't, because he has no fire, he's a coward and a total bore to be fair. Taking a stand just isn't in his dna!

 

I dread to think of what will happen if he's still in charge come election time. Mr Grey couldn't inspire a piss up in a brewery.

 

 

There’s one thing you’re forgetting. 
 

Starmer isn’t trying to get your vote. You’re left wing and will always vote for the best option that removes the Tories. 
 

Your vote for labour is secured as they are the party in the best position to gain power in the current voting system. 
 

Starmer needs to appeal to the swing voters who can be swayed from voting from the Tories by having a more neutral stance. 
 

We don’t live in a predominantly left wing country. A pure left wing candidate will never gain power as seen with multiple attempts by Corbyn. 
 

It’s time for Labour to stop fighting with themselves and get behind the leader they have. It doesn’t matter if he’s not promising unicorns and rainbows. Right now he’s the hot seat and the best chance they have to get a change in power. 

[steviewevie]

51 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

There’s one thing you’re forgetting. 
 

Starmer isn’t trying to get your vote. You’re left wing and will always vote for the best option that removes the Tories. 
 

Your vote for labour is secured as they are the party in the best position to gain power in the current voting system. 
 

Starmer needs to appeal to the swing voters who can be swayed from voting from the Tories by having a more neutral stance. 
 

We don’t live in a predominantly left wing country. A pure left wing candidate will never gain power as seen with multiple attempts by Corbyn. 
 

It’s time for Labour to stop fighting with themselves and get behind the leader they have. It doesn’t matter if he’s not promising unicorns and rainbows. Right now he’s the hot seat and the best chance they have to get a change in power. 

This.

I guess some on the left will either not vote or vote Green or some other alternative...but not tory. Whereas many labour voters have switched to tory.

[mattiloy]

57 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

This.

I guess some on the left will either not vote or vote Green or some other alternative...but not tory. Whereas many labour voters have switched to tory.

Can’t speak for anybody else but I won’t be voting Labour anyway.

It is true that a vote going to the greens or to none of the above is less damaging in most instances than one swinging to the tories. But I don’t see Starmer attempting to appeal to the kind of voters he lost in the red wall. Seems more like he’s trying to out lib dem the lib dems and scoop up old liberal tories in the shires (and maybe the young liberal cosmopolitan types who have supposedly relocated to the burbs during covid). It’s a risky bet but given he’s lost about 15-16% of the youth vote (18-24) since 12months ago (according to latest yougov), he must be picking them up somewhere to be still in the mix. It’s honestly amazing to me that someone somewhere is impressed enough by Starmer to vote for him. It goes to show how utterly superficial the liberal vote is. Based on how ‘sensible’ someone appears.

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, waterfalls21234 said:

hey @eFestivals hows that `moderate` labour leadership working out for you? 
 

no great, but how did corbyn work out, worst leader ever!

[topmarksbri]

3 hours ago, waterfalls21234 said:

Polls mean sod all away from election time as people will say anything when they don't have to act on it anytime soon. What matters is he's not doing his job, labour are not acting like opposition other then a few backbenchers who still have a bit of left wing fire left in them (watch it though if you speak to passionately stamer will try to 'cull' you for not being moderate enough 😋.)

The tory Party and boris in particular have got away with so so so much over the last couple of years with barely any challenge. You say Labour are polling well? Considering the fuck ups of the opposition, the skeletons in boris's and others closets that have been aired, the complete cack handling of the covid crisis they should be miles ahead by now! The fact that despite all that they are still only just polling now around the same as the tory party is not something to be proud of! Stamers has so many things he could have utterly roasted boris for as of late but he hasn't, because he has no fire, he's a coward and a total bore to be fair. Taking a stand just isn't in his dna!

 

I dread to think of what will happen if he's still in charge come election time. Mr Grey couldn't inspire a piss up in a brewery.

 

 

There’s no other way of objectively measuring success in opposition - your measures are purely subjective and I get the impression no matter what he does you wouldn’t have thought him a success.

[maelzoid]

2 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

There’s one thing you’re forgetting. 
 

Starmer isn’t trying to get your vote. You’re left wing and will always vote for the best option that removes the Tories. 
 

Your vote for labour is secured as they are the party in the best position to gain power in the current voting system. 
 

Starmer needs to appeal to the swing voters who can be swayed from voting from the Tories by having a more neutral stance. 
 

We don’t live in a predominantly left wing country. A pure left wing candidate will never gain power as seen with multiple attempts by Corbyn. 
 

It’s time for Labour to stop fighting with themselves and get behind the leader they have. It doesn’t matter if he’s not promising unicorns and rainbows. Right now he’s the hot seat and the best chance they have to get a change in power. 

Hard agree.

I think some people here need to accept that this country is far more right wing than they would like it to be. Tony Blair is the only person who isn't a tory to win GE in 50 years. Labour's only shot at power is with a relative centrist.

I sympathise with people voting Green. I voted Green once, and the result was we ended up with a Tory MP and he was awful. So, be careful...

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

Can’t speak for anybody else but I won’t be voting Labour anyway.

It is true that a vote going to the greens or to none of the above is less damaging in most instances than one swinging to the tories. But I don’t see Starmer attempting to appeal to the kind of voters he lost in the red wall. Seems more like he’s trying to out lib dem the lib dems and scoop up old liberal tories in the shires (and maybe the young liberal cosmopolitan types who have supposedly relocated to the burbs during covid). It’s a risky bet but given he’s lost about 15-16% of the youth vote (18-24) since 12months ago (according to latest yougov), he must be picking them up somewhere to be still in the mix. It’s honestly amazing to me that someone somewhere is impressed enough by Starmer to vote for him. It goes to show how utterly superficial the liberal vote is. Based on how ‘sensible’ someone appears.

in that yougov polls tories were losing support but that wasn't going to labour but elsewhere...reform or whatever.

[topmarksbri]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

in that yougov polls tories were losing support but that wasn't going to labour but elsewhere...reform or whatever.

Always been the case. Labour need strong LibDems/Others to split the vote

[steviewevie]

36 minutes ago, topmarksbri said:

There’s no other way of objectively measuring success in opposition - your measures are purely subjective and I get the impression no matter what he does you wouldn’t have thought him a success.

for a lot of people Starmer is the devil incarnate after kicking Corbyn out for his reaction to the antisemitism report...and I see why Starmer did that to show being tough on antisemitism etc etc, but it was probably a big mistake politically and one he might not recover from.

[eFestivals]

Just now, steviewevie said:

for a lot of people Starmer is the devil incarnate after kicking Corbyn out for his reaction to the antisemitism report...and I see why Starmer did that to show being tough on antisemitism etc etc, but it was probably a big mistake politically and one he might not recover from.

starmer is playing to more than just you, one day some people will realise that politics isn't about them.

[steviewevie]

Just now, topmarksbri said:

Always been the case. Labour need strong LibDems/Others to split the vote

yeah...but a lot of the labour vote in the past has gone tory now, maybe via ukip, but all the same once labour voters are now tory and Boris is their man. So, labour has to win them back, and that's probably only going to happen if Bojo fucks up (which is quite possible).

[steviewevie]

Just now, eFestivals said:

starmer is playing to more than just you, one day some people will realise that politics isn't about them.

ok...but Starmer has a lot of enemies now within the labour movement, which is fine if want to win over a section of the electorate, but if people just see labour infighting and bickering all the time then they won't be voting for them. It's kind of similar to what happened with Kinnock in the 80s.

[mattiloy]

Just now, steviewevie said:

in that yougov polls tories were losing support but that wasn't going to labour but elsewhere...reform or whatever.

Yea but the Labour vote has held up ish despite losing a load of votes amongst the youth, the byelections demonstrate that the red wall voters remain turned off labour, so one can infer that the vote has held up because of some decent support from the kind of middle aged liberals (centrist dads if you will) that Starmer appears to appeal to.

The distribution of these around the country means that target seats in the next GE won’t be winning back the likes of leigh and durham, but instead will probs be in the shires in the south.

A point to the above posters who say that the country is right wing. Even in the 2019 election, the right wing didn’t win a majority of votes. Polling on issues demonstrates that the country is economically left and basically just against globalisation & immigration. They are also against interventionism overseas. Put it together and you have the antithesis of Blairism. And it’s precisely because of the Blair years. It didn’t work anywhere it was tried. Look at Biden now, well to the left of Obama on the economy, very anti interventionist, tough on immigration. If he had tried to replicate Obama’s policy platform he would have lost.